Man Utd Fans ?

[Declan_Michael]

I agree with you about Celtic fans in Ireland supporting the club against Irish clubs.

As for embracing your new country, well that's not for me and never was for my parents. You pay your taxes and that should be enough loyalty. There is one good reason for this. You are denying what you are. This is primarily for the first generation but also includes the second. Believe me, there is nothing that makes the natives here laugh as much as a non-Briton taking on British citizenship and trying to be a British gent - bit like the bloke with the Turban in 'Ain't half hot mum' . One I worked with who was a manager from Burma - and unlike many at least had some British blood in him - was referred to simply as 'The Englishman' followed by a laugh of contempt. Ouch!!! Another bloke I worked with had parents from Longford - surprise, surprise - who, no doubt because of the eejit cousins that he used to spend the summer with not being able to distinguish the difference between a real English person and an Irish person who just happened to be born in England, eventually rejected any suggestion he was Irish. Trouble was, the natives didn't really see it this way and would continually refer to him as 'Paddy' or 'the Irish bloke.' Double ouch!!! It should be added that I was saddened that I never got any of this treatment.

No doubt there are many that feel the same way about us plastics in Ireland, and perhaps that's why I've resisted the urge to return 'home.' But in years to come with immigration far outstripping emigration - and with the reassessing of who is entitled to Irish citizenship - attitudes IMO will undoubtedly change on the theory that being born in Ireland makes you Irish and being born elsewhere doesn't.

Certainly agree with paragraphs 2 and 3. Have first hand experience of some of the things you mentioned. In fact, I could probably reel off a long list...

[Pat O' Banton]

exaclty that was the point i was getting, Why do lots of people support Celtic and not Hibs, if it is to do with the Irish emmigrants, as Hibs were set up first and are just as "Irish" as Celtic are. In addition Liverpool and Everton and Man Utd have all had Irish emmigrants working for them playing for them and supporting them. Nothing wrong with supporting Celtic, but they are not Irish or they are not any more Irish than Man Utd. IF you wanna support an Irish team support Ireland, or your local LoI team. I support Spurs but i know they are a london club and to be honest my passion for them is waining as some how they seem remote to me, whereas the Irish national team represents and I feel part of the support for it.

Part of the reason that more Irish people support Celtic above Hibs is the fact that many more Irish people settled in Glasgow and the west of Scotland in general. This is one of the reason that people from other parts of Scotland see the bitterness of the rivalary between Celtic and Rangers as a west of Scotland problem. Enevitably this led to Celtic being better attended, getting more money better players and then being more successful, therefore being more popular.

[NeilMcD]

have they really been more successful, i thought rangers had more leagues wins, I know they never won the European Cup but they did win a european trophy and i thought they have won more trophies but I could be wrong

[Plastic Paddy]

have they really been more successful, i thought rangers had more leagues wins, I know they never won the European Cup but they did win a european trophy and i thought they have won more trophies but I could be wrong

I think he means more successful than Hibs, Neil.

Domestically, Rankgers have won the league title 49 times (plus one shared) and Celtic 39 times. In Europe, Celtic have won the European Cup once, been beaten finalists once and made the semi-finals on two further occasions. Rankgers won the ECWC in Barcelona in 1972 and had to be presented with the trophy in the dressing room as their "fans" were rioting in the stadium outside.

PP

[NeilMcD]

So rangers have been more sucessful then

[Plastic Paddy]

So rangers have been more sucessful then

Surely the definition of success is all-dependent on context and paradigm. These days, clubs at the highest level tend to refer to European competition as the benchmark for success, whereas previously it was the domestic arena that was used as the basis for this judgement. So domestically, Rankgers have been more successful than Celtic, whereas in Europe, Celtic have been more successful than Rankgers. Et cetera, ad nauseam...

Currently, Celtic (with this season's SPL title long since won) are the more successful side. In case you'd forgotten, Rankgers have won diddly squat.

Have you lost the will to live yet?

PP

[Plastic Paddy]

Hmmm, you mention semis that Celtic were in but only the final that Rangers won? That's hardly objective. Would I be right in suggesting that Rangers were beaten finalists in the European Cup Winners Cup on two more occasions, the reached the semis of the European Cup in 1960 and in 1993, of course, they were pipped by Bernard Tapie's Marseille team by just one point to the Champions League Final. Just thought I'd clarify because when you added in semis that Celtic were in with no reference to similar runs by Rangers it would, of course, give a biased view...

Who said anything about objectivity?

You, my fine Kerry pedant friend, neglected to mention Celtic's run to last season's UEFA Cup final, which would surely merit inclusion according to those criteria.

Isn't that Mrs Conor I hear calling you to the table for your dinner?

PP

[shugk1]

I know rangers where beaten in the ecwc final the year Celtic won the big one. WE privately think of ourselves as underdogs to them, it makes it more special when we have our day.

[Pat O' Banton]

I don't doubt that Rangers are domesically at least more successful than Celtic, my point as PP pointed out was with regards to the Irish following Celtic rather than Hibs.

DM I assume that you believe in the the shiney new Ireland of the Celtic Tiger that even the poorest people looking to emigrate can afford to fly to Australia or USA (standard class of course) However the truth is that many people still come to Britain and of these many especially from Ulster will follow the well worn path to Glasgow and those who are interested in football may choose to follow a team whose fans carry the Irish national flag.

Equally to answer the point about Celtic fans not following Scotland, many actually do, of those who don't there are people who are second generation Irish and so follow Ireland. Of the rest many believe that the Scottish FA have carried out a vendetta because of the clubs Irish identity and so will not support Scotland. Before anyone asks what vendetta you may care to find out more about the Scottish FA threatening to close down Celtic in the 50's if they did not stop flying a foreign flag above the Jungle (anyone care to guess what country the flag represended)

[sylvo]

I think i know this one, is it Pat O'Banton_ Mark, mr O'Banton how's the form and good to see you've gone right in @ the deep end on a Celtic kick off, don't waste any time now do yer, will know doubt see yer good self in O'Rafferty's tomorrow night watching a team that will remain nameless just in case their name cause's any more kick off's. .mush ent grumble.

[shugk1]

I don't doubt that Rangers are domesically at least more successful than Celtic, my point as PP pointed out was with regards to the Irish following Celtic rather than Hibs.

DM I assume that you believe in the the shiney new Ireland of the Celtic Tiger that even the poorest people looking to emigrate can afford to fly to Australia or USA (standard class of course) However the truth is that many people still come to Britain and of these many especially from Ulster will follow the well worn path to Glasgow and those who are interested in football may choose to follow a team whose fans carry the Irish national flag.

Equally to answer the point about Celtic fans not following Scotland, many actually do, of those who don't there are people who are second generation Irish and so follow Ireland. Of the rest many believe that the Scottish FA have carried out a vendetta because of the clubs Irish identity and so will not support Scotland. Before anyone asks what vendetta you may care to find out more about the Scottish FA threatening to close down Celtic in the 50's if they did not stop flying a foreign flag above the Jungle (anyone care to guess what country the flag represended)

Yes and at that time Celtic looked to Hibs for some support, but they like the rest of them did'nt want to know.

[shugk1]

Unfortunately Thompson only gave him a playful pat on the cheek so there was no case to answer.

[shugk1]

No not at all I was only kidding. It's just that the incident was quickly dismissed as a nothing while rangers were trying to keep it going as they think they are being victimised ( in this country thats a joke)

[lopez]

As we all know the only place Rangers are victimised are in Europe, where the poor standard and bigoted bias of papist refereeing has consistently denied them the progress that their wonderful form in the SPL over the last eighteen years clearly suggests they should make.

[NeilMcD]

Yes,mainly due to the Masonic muppets who pass themselves off as referees ......the main culprit being a Mr.Huge Phallas(The biggest Pr*ck in football!)....an example being a reasonable goal scored by Varga,being chalked off on Sat.....& Fernando Rickety escaping a studs-up tackle,from the K.Muscat handbook,without even a yellow.....

Fair play to Hugh Dallas he is a very good ref who is well respected at International Level. Every ref makes a mistake and i am sure Celtic have got decisions for them too. The fact is that Rangers have been much more successful than rangers domestically and have won the same amount of European Trophies as Celtic, So that really means they are a much more successful Football club. if success is judged on the basis of winning things which is the common way to judge success within football.

[lopez]

Fair play to Hugh Dallas he is a very good ref who is well respected at International Level. Every ref makes a mistake...

I too used to believe the conspiracy theories about Phallus until I saw him ref the Deportivo v Milan game in the San Siro in 2001. How the hell did he get to be an international ref? Now that's a Masonic conspiracy I'm willing to believe. He gave away two dodgy penalties to both sides, the first to Depor, to which, irony, irony, he was pelted by an onslaught of oranges by the home support. The thing that got me was the little point by his finger round his arse to the penalty spot as he ran to get into position. Is this standard behaviour of his? Everyone - and I mean everyone - was standing around wondering what the f*ck he was playing at until the pr*ck explained that he'd just given a penalty. Then, roll the oranges!!

[shugk1]

Fair play to Hugh Dallas he is a very good ref who is well respected at International Level. Every ref makes a mistake and i am sure Celtic have got decisions for them too. The fact is that Rangers have been much more successful than rangers domestically and have won the same amount of European Trophies as Celtic, So that really means they are a much more successful Football club. if success is judged on the basis of winning things which is the common way to judge success within football.

Domestically they are more succesful but Euro wise not. You cant compare the Euro Cup Winners Cup with the European Cup final. Celtic have been in two European cup finals while rangers have'nt been in one.

[sylvo]

Good post...respect to the R-R posse;Is the beer still rank?!

In case Phil is reading, the beer is it's usual high standard dav.

[Pat O' Banton]

Thank you for your welcome Sylvo and Dav. Yes the Guinness in R R is of high standard in my opinion. Believe that the venerable manager of that establishment has looked at this site before, so Sylvo if that was sarcasim he may well save a seat next to Lola for you tonight

I too used to believe the conspiracy theories about Phallus until I saw him ref the Deportivo v Milan game in the San Siro in 2001. How the hell did he get to be an international ref? Now that's a Masonic conspiracy I'm willing to believe. He gave away two dodgy penalties to both sides, the first to Depor, to which, irony, irony, he was pelted by an onslaught of oranges by the home support. The thing that got me was the little point by his finger round his arse to the penalty spot as he ran to get into position. Is this standard behaviour of his? Everyone - and I mean everyone - was standing around wondering what the f*ck he was playing at until the pr*ck explained that he'd just given a penalty. Then, roll the oranges!!

Remember talking to a Rangers fan who told me that they complained about the standard of Mr. Dallas's reffing, so if they think he's bad and everyone else thinks that he is biases towards them, well....

Outside his performances in Scotland I particularly enjoyed Italy v Turkey in Euro 2000, when after a quiet hour or so Dallas popped up to unmarked in the box to award a bizzare penalty to Italy, a truely match winning performance