Man Utd Fans ?

**tiktok** · 07/05/2004, 7:09 AM

Originally Posted by davros

Here's to them appointing Bryan Robbo as Fergie's successor

nah, i think we'll have Martin O'Neill

i take your point, there have been a lot of bandwagon jumpers (which is understandable) but the arrogance they show is in part due to not remembering bleaker days when we really really wanted to win anything, even the league (milk/rumblerows) cup. The majority of us realise success comes and goes, and we're just enjoying it while we can. Ask any Liverpool fan i went to primary school with, when that was the 'bandwagon' of choice.

**Macy** · 07/05/2004, 7:28 AM

Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

Welcome on board Shug. Just a shame you had to join at the tail end of yet another anti-Celtic rant from the Brothers Superior.

Read back and see who started this PP, it's more the end of an anti United rant, using an illogical arguement.

**the 12 th man** · 07/05/2004, 7:41 AM

Originally Posted by davros

PS.What do you say to ManUre/Tims from ....

davros,any chance of a glossary for the terms that you use as some of them
are new to me

osc:
tims:
surrey hordes:
scarfers:
clowns:
h*ns:
feel free to ad in the ones im forgetting,even what comprises a proper prawn sambo

**NeilMcD** · 07/05/2004, 9:49 AM

Originally Posted by shugk1

Jesus,(sorry for taking the lord's name in vain) what have I walked into here,Neil you're probably right we are a foreign team to some Irish, but as far as I know the Bhoys that come over from the Emerald Isle would never dream of supporting an english club for reason's more known to themselves. As for Hib's there are some of the support who dont even know what HIBERNIA(NS) means, although most do but dont care. Being Scottish and proud but also proud of my Irish ancestry it is hard to being called a bog Irish tarrier and told to go home where I belong when I have been born&bred in Glasgow. I'm sorry this has been my first post, I was only wanting to check how SLIGO where doing. (Neil this has'nt specifically been aimed at you, just can't believe some of the debates going on previously).

W

Welcome to the board. To be honest I was not havign a go at anybody really, i support a foreign team. The only people i would have a go at and i dont know if they exist on this board or not but people who feel that by supporting Celtic they are supporting an Irish team. My point was that if you lived in Dublin, Clare, Tyrone, Belfast, Cork and you supported Celtic it did not give you any right to slag off people from these same counties supporting Man Utd or LIverpool or Spurs. At the moment i reckon that Spurs have more Irish players than any other team at the moment. But that is irrelevant. Celtic fans in ireland are just as much or as little as glory hunters as Man U fans. And lets be honest kids will be kids, I remember in the 80s every little kid supported Liverpool and in the 90s it was Man Utd. It just so happesn that MANu'S success co-incided with the advent of Premiership and Sky and so much hype etc which Man Utd were central too along with liverpool etc.

**NeilMcD** · 07/05/2004, 9:52 AM

Originally Posted by Conor74

Trying very hard to figure the relevance of his colour to your support. What assumptions did you make on the basis of his skin colour?

I'm just thinking of my signature Neil...

I take offence and this Conor and I am sick of your sad posts and you signature says it all. I was five, and the idea of the first black player playing for ireland was unique to me and when i met him he was really nice. that is it plain and simple and I feell you should take your comment back,hinting that I had any assumptions or made any previously. I said i was a kid at the time.

**Macy** · 07/05/2004, 10:09 AM

[QUOTE=davros]Scarfers;Middle-class/train-spotter fans,with no awareness of terrace culture who invariably made even the average person in green,look over-dressed.....
QUOTE]
A scarfer is just someone who wears colours, as described by casuals - I don't know where you get all that from. I know plenty of scarfers who are working class, who have been going to football for decades. The people you describe are best described as tw@ts IMO.

The Cockney Reds aren't the same as the "Surrey Hoades". One of the most notorious hooligan groups in the 70's and 80's.

**Macy** · 07/05/2004, 10:41 AM

It was you who were slagging Scarfers; I was supporting them against your redefinition of terrace culture terms.

**NeilMcD** · 07/05/2004, 10:57 AM

I think people should wear there colours to games as much as they can fit really, jersesys, hates, scarves etc. As much as is possible without scaring off the birds later on that night. I am not into people who wear street wear to the game totally as in they dont have one bit of colour about them. It was very noticeable watching the Semi Final of the English FA Cup when Millwal played Sunderland that all the miwall fans were wearing tommy smith jumpers etc, basically casuals and all the sunderland fans were wearing the jerseys.

**NeilMcD** · 07/05/2004, 11:55 AM

You did not quote me in full you quoted parts of my sentence which is a habit of yours, and it is taken out of context. I was five for fck sake he was the first black player to play for Ireland and when I was five that was different and interesting to me. The more i learnt about him the more I admired him and as a result i supported spurs. Nothing wrong with that but if you have a problem with it or it confuses you well then tough luck.

In relation to the signature, its the very fact that you have a quote from me that says it all. you seem some what pre- occupied by my posts etc or opinions as i dont think i have posted yet on one item and within a few hours you have posted a dis agreement towards it or nit picked or taken a quote out of context etc. To be honest it is made me think of not posting again as it is annoying me and If thats your design well then fair enough but it is becoming boring that everythig i post here is been quoted out of context etc etc. Even innocent comments about Chris Hughton.

**NeilMcD** · 07/05/2004, 12:27 PM

you have mis understood me again, i was explaining why i supported spurs. I was not trying to be pro blacks or anti blacks or anything i was just explaining why i like spurs as a five year old. I dont re-edit my history as a 26n year old now that i have fully aware of racial strife. I was five the very fact somone looked different to me as a five year old and then i met him was the reason i started spurs. You can over intellectualise it all you like. I was five. Five year olds are struck by such things as colour etc, especially when very few people in Ireland were black in the 1980s. It was a side comment made by me to explain why i support spurs. I support them cause i met a player that played for them and played for ireland and was black. Not cause i was trying to be pc or anything ilke that. Just pure and simple aesthetics.

I will shake your hand no problem but to be honest i agree with a lot of your posts you make and I disagree with some too, but i dont post on everything you say. Whereas you seem to have got into the habit of no matter what i post there is always a reply from you quoting me despite the fact there may be 20 other posts on the thread. I know you dont know me but i was just wondering why that was. It means that i cant post on a thread without it inevitabley ending with an argument/debate between me and you. It is just puzzling. Lastly the comment about Kerry was a joke and you know it was but having it as your signature would put across the view that somone how i am closed minded and I judge people on where they are from. As somone who is lived in clare and Dublin and abroad i am quite aware of not making judgements on peoples backgrounds.

Did you mam never tell you if you dont have something positive to say about somone , say nothing at all.

**shugk1** · 07/05/2004, 11:45 PM

NeilMcD, PlasticPaddy TikTok, thanks for the welcome look forwarding to posting shortly and joining in some future debates, going for a kip now finished my last beer 10 mins ago as I have an early rise tomorrow for a big day. Even though it doesnt mean much, it means alot, CMON THE BHOYS

**lopez** · 10/05/2004, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

...To be honest I was not havign a go at anybody really, i support a foreign team. The only people i would have a go at and i dont know if they exist on this board or not but people who feel that by supporting Celtic they are supporting an Irish team. My point was that if you lived in Dublin, Clare, Tyrone, Belfast, Cork and you supported Celtic it did not give you any right to slag off people from these same counties supporting Man Utd or LIverpool or Spurs.

Celtic are a team founded by an IRISHman for Glasgow's IRISH community. Why shouldn't IRISH people passively support such a team or indeed Hibs for that matter. Do you have a problem with IRISH emigrants?

**Macy** · 10/05/2004, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by davros

You've done it now,pal......you'll set-off the self-righteous brigade again,as they dont appreciate being reminded of IRISH culture,especially relating to the Diaspora.....

Well he did say Glasgow's Irish Community not Dublins.

**Macy** · 10/05/2004, 1:03 PM

Originally Posted by davros

It's for the Diaspora.......or do you ignore Celtic fans,all over the island of Ireland & beyond..........

The Diaspora in Glasgow surely? Or why bother with setting up Hibs? Why have Irish centres all over the world, if Celtic is the be all and end all when it comes to Irish Culture?

IMO no one on this board has a problem with people supporting clubs across the water, be they Celtic, United, the scousers. What they do have a problem with is the Celtic are Irish argument - mainly perpetuated by muppets on barstools who would never get off their arse to support the Irish team just down the road that plays in the National League of Ireland. They're not mutually exclusive, as plenty of us show on these boards.

**NeilMcD** · 11/05/2004, 2:11 PM

exaclty that was the point i was getting, Why do lots of people support Celtic and not Hibs, if it is to do with the Irish emmigrants, as Hibs were set up first and are just as "Irish" as Celtic are. In addition Liverpool and Everton and Man Utd have all had Irish emmigrants working for them playing for them and supporting them. Nothing wrong with supporting Celtic, but they are not Irish or they are not any more Irish than Man Utd. IF you wanna support an Irish team support Ireland, or your local LoI team. I support Spurs but i know they are a london club and to be honest my passion for them is waining as some how they seem remote to me, whereas the Irish national team represents and I feel part of the support for it.

**NeilMcD** · 11/05/2004, 2:31 PM

Manchester Utd had the biggest fan base and the highest attendance in England when they were in the 2nd division in the 70's so this idea that they are the biggest cause the are the most successful is rubbish. There Manchester supporters are very loyal and have stuck by with them through the 70's and 80's when they one a few cups. They had very loyal Irish supporter too due to the amount of Irish in Manchester and Man Utd has had strong Irish links too. But the fact remains, Celtic are a British team with links to Ireland, that is a fact. The problem is we live here in dublin and In ireland and have to listen to Celtic fans who think that Celtic are somehow more irish than the Irish national team. Some of them even booed Pats players when celtic played against them a few y ears, back and the Glasgow Celtic supporter were ashamed of these guys and said why where they not supporting Pats.

**Declan_Michael** · 11/05/2004, 2:40 PM

Originally Posted by lopez

Celtic are a team founded by an IRISHman for Glasgow's IRISH community. Why shouldn't IRISH people passively support such a team or indeed Hibs for that matter. Do you have a problem with IRISH emigrants?

I think the point should be how many Irish emigrants actually choose Glasgow or Scotland for a new home these days. I'm sure they choose Australia and America. 100 or so years ago emigrants looked for the first plot of land that wasn't Irish because they could not afford to travel any further. Today, there descendants are what 6th, 7th generation Irish? certainly not the criteria required for obtaining an Irish passport. I'm sure they'd rather support Scotland than Ireland and why wouldn't they?

Lets not confuse the local Glaswegians who support their local Glaswegian club to the glory seeking daytrippers in Eircom jerseys.

Hibs? who are they?

**lopez** · 11/05/2004, 2:56 PM

Neil, while I have every sympathy with you re some Celtic fans in Ireland, your attempts to line up Manchester United as on par with Celtic in the Irishness stakes are simply laughable. Feel free to follow them, feel free to follow Tottenham because of Chris Hughton (I know him personally from my time involved with the committee of the RISSC in London and I know exactly what you said about him is true), but to say that any English club has the same right of my support as a club founded by Irish people is a joke. Yeah, I liked Arsenal at the turn of the eighties with seven first choice Irishmen in the team. Wouldn't bother my backside with them now, despite a number of Dav's mates thinking they are the Celtic of London. Its' cojones. I'd probably like to see Chelsea win the F*ck All Cup if Damian Duff is the only Irishman playing, but support a team with a high number of far-right w*nkers amongst their fanbase? I don't think so.

Regarding Hibs, well unfortunately the guardians of the club successfully rid itself of it's Irish links long ago, even playing with a thistle as a badge when I first started taking an interest in Scottish football. Hibernian with a Scottish symbol for the club. Says it all really. Not so Celtic, and if you are one of the muppets from Sesame Street that think that Celtic's attempts to cling to their Irishness is a cynical attempt to cash in, should remember how 'uncool' it was to be Irish twenty to thirty years ago in Britain.

As you said: 'Celtic are a British team with links to Ireland'. Where are the links of any other English club to Ireland. Players are commodities, fans and history is what makes a club. As I keep banging on, perhaps if you had learnt about emigration in school and about the naked sectarianism and discrimination in work - something that started to die out only in the seventies - towards people of Irish descent in Glasgow you - and the residents of Sesame Street, Corcaigh - might have a different outlook.

**NeilMcD** · 11/05/2004, 3:03 PM

I understand why a guy from glasgow would support Celtic as a link to ireland and maybe a fan from England may support them too if they had links to ireland. What i dont understand is, the Irish fans supporting them against league of ireland opposition. Wearing Celtic jerseys to Ireland matches, which i find offensive,as they are wearing them as if they are somehow irish jerseys. I live with a guy that is big tartan army guy and he finds it hard that so many celtic fans in glasgow, and rangers fans, to boot dont support scotland. My view of emmigrants is that you should not lose your heritage but you should become part of your New country. I woudl hold that view for people coming here as well as those that leave it. I dont think it is on to reject the country that you arrive in. Fairl play to any fan taht supports celtic, but what gets my blood boiling is the Irish Celtic supporter usually equiped with Tash and tracksuit and sovereign ring and thinks that he is supporing some repulican cause by supporting Celtic and that Celtic somehow represent the 32 county Ireland that the Republic of Ireland cannot do. Depite the fact that Celtic only have 2 Irish first teamers and are a company like any other footballa club.

**lopez** · 11/05/2004, 3:28 PM

I agree with you about Celtic fans in Ireland supporting the club against Irish clubs.

As for embracing your new country, well that's not for me and never was for my parents. You pay your taxes and that should be enough loyalty. There is one good reason for this. You are denying what you are. This is primarily for the first generation but also includes the second. Believe me, there is nothing that makes the natives here laugh as much as a non-Briton taking on British citizenship and trying to be a British gent - bit like the bloke with the Turban in 'Ain't half hot mum' . One I worked with who was a manager from Burma - and unlike many at least had some British blood in him - was referred to simply as 'The Englishman' followed by a laugh of contempt. Ouch!!! Another bloke I worked with had parents from Longford - surprise, surprise

- who, no doubt because of the eejit cousins that he used to spend the summer with not being able to distinguish the difference between a real English person and an Irish person who just happened to be born in England, eventually rejected any suggestion he was Irish. Trouble was, the natives didn't really see it this way and would continually refer to him as 'Paddy' or 'the Irish bloke.' Double ouch!!!

It should be added that I was saddened that I never got any of this treatment.

No doubt there are many that feel the same way about us plastics in Ireland, and perhaps that's why I've resisted the urge to return 'home.' But in years to come with immigration far outstripping emigration - and with the reassessing of who is entitled to Irish citizenship - attitudes IMO will undoubtedly change on the theory that being born in Ireland makes you Irish and being born elsewhere doesn't.