Slovakia V Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 12th October 2010 - Euro 2012 Qualifier

[ifk101]

Green is taking unnecessary over the top criticism for Friday night. I dont know if he is upto it either, but even Roy Keane at his best wouldve struggled with an abject Glenn Whelan as his partner against a three man Russian midfield who were superb technically. The support given by McG and Lawro to the CM's was very poor as well.

Green hasn't shown in his three competitive internationals that he is good enough to play international football. Criticism of Green is qualified by his performances against Armenia and Andorra. He needed a "big" performance against Russia to prove his critcs wrong. That performance wasn't forthcoming. Running after Arshavin looking for his jersey at the end is despicable. He's a tourist.

[geysir]

"Despicable", get over yourself.

Green's attitude throughout is to give 100% and he gives 100%.
His contribution is not a lot compared to what we need, but it's still 100%.

[Hibs4Ever]

Green was by far the worst player on the pitch on Friday night IMO

[Stuttgart88]

I'd call up Murphy as a replacement for Doyle. He's playing games and scoring goals for Celtic.

Shane Long is playing regularly and scoring goals for Ireland.

Has Murphy scored from open play this season?

[elroy]

Im not saying Green is up to it. All im saying he is unfairly been used as the scapegoat for the performance, when you could list almost every Irish player for that accolade. The system was badly exposed on Friday night and thats why I fear for Tuesday night if Slovakia play a similar system. Although I dont think they have the players to employ the system so efficiently as Russia did. Im a big Trap fan but for arguably the first time, he has to shoulder the blame. It was clear at half time on Friday that we needed to go man to man to have any chance, it was too late when we did. Considering the state of the Russian defence, a real opportunity missed. One that I wouldnt rule out Macedonia taking on Tues night.

I dont think a win is a must Tuesday night. After Friday night, its very hard to see how we can win. A draw keeps us right in there and gives us time to address certain failings between now and March 26 next year.

[ifk101]

"Despicable", get over yourself.

Green's attitude throughout is to give 100% and he gives 100%.
His contribution is not a lot compared to what we need, but it's still 100%.

"Gives 100%". Is that a quality deserving of praise?

The chap's out of his depth. His inability to control the ball should have been punished by both Armenia and Russia with a goal.

[Stuttgart88]

Lawrence is already out

Examiner says he's carrying a knock, sat out training but is expected to be fit.

[ifk101]

Has Murphy scored from open play this season?

He scored two against Bohs yesterday.

[Kingdom]

"Gives 100%". Is that a quality deserving of praise?

The chap's out of his depth. His inability to control the ball should have been punished by both Armenia and Russia with a goal.

Unfortunately this cannot be understated. There were at least 5 occasions where the ball seemed to either just bounce off him or he overran the ball when challenging against Russia.

This also happened a few times against Armenia. I admire his honesty, the interview in the Sunday Times was good last week, but he's not good enough to be starting.

As has been said numerous times here and on YBIG, there are (or should be) plenty ahead of him.
Whelan, Andrews, Rowlands, Gibson definitely should be ahead, while even the inexperienced players such as McCarthy, Meyler and even Garvan arguably have a case ahead of him.
He's probably being selected due to Andrews and Rowlands injuries.

[geysir]

"Gives 100%". Is that a quality deserving of praise?

It is worth noting that when a player gives a 100% of what he has, we can't ask for any more, can we? We have opinions on the quality, but the 100% effort was 100% honest and in stark contrast to his partner who hid when he was incapable of performing.
So Green is perfectly entitled to claim any shirt he wants.
Your attitude in throwing around strong sarcastic comments around that action is indeed despicable

[Stuttgart88]

Nobody argues that Green tries his best but he hasn't delivered on the decent (but no more than decent) performances he showed in the RDS. No recriminations, just a preference for a better player to be picked. In the current squad I think both Fahey (who also has some bite to him) and Gibson are better.

Andrews' critics are probably seeing what they're missing now.

[geysir]

There is no big secret to how we played in Paris or in Bari. The other teams backs off - wants to hold their advantage and back off from closing us down in our half.
The problem we have when teams put us on under pressure, we get into a total flux.
When teams come to Dublin, close down our back 4, close down any attempt to bring the ball through midfield, we are chronically incapable of doing anything other than lump it long in response. This has been happening for years.
One midfielder who can play is not enough. We saw that with Andy Reid, when he was targeted, we were scuttled. There is an dearth of that required technical ability on the ball and the movement into positions to receive the ball.

[ifk101]

It is worth noting that when a player gives a 100% of what he has, we can't ask for any more, can we?

That's not a quality that should be praised as it is rational to assume that every player gives 100%.

We have opinions on the quality, but the 100% effort was 100% honest and in stark contrast to his partner who hid when he was incapable of performing.

So your defence of Green is based on your assumption that Whelan didn't give 100% while Green did?

So Green is perfectly entitled to claim any shirt he wants.

??

Your attitude in throwing around strong sarcastic comments around that action is indeed despicable

There's nothing sarcastic in stating that 100% effort isn't a quality that should be praised.

[Stuttgart88]

There is a dearth of that required technical ability on the ball and the movement into positions to receive the ball.

Yep, the absolute basics of football unfortunately. Apart from not having the bare basics we're not too bad I guess.

[geysir]

That's not a quality that should be praised as it is rational to assume that every player gives 100%.

You are confused and why am I not surprised. An observation that he gives 100% of what he has, is just that, an observation. Opinion was offered on that effort in the context of what we need - my opinion is that we need a better quality midfielder.
It is not rational to assume that a player gives 100% of what he has to offer. We have to see that effort being done on the pitch, then we can quantify the effort.

There's nothing sarcastic in stating that 100% effort isn't a quality that should be praised.

Are you incapable of even understanding what you yourself wrote and what I replied? The sarcasm I was directly referring to was your use of the word 'despicable'.
"Running after Arshavin looking for his jersey at the end is despicable"

[paul_oshea]

"Despicable", get over yourself.

Green's attitude throughout is to give 100% and he gives 100%.
His contribution is not a lot compared to what we need, but it's still 100%.

geysir, the point being made is not the swapping of the jersey, but the fact that we have lost so few home games competitively, and the fact that probably only happened 3 times in 25 years to ship 3 goals at home (competitively also) and yet all eh can think about is running over to swap jerseys, and not a care in the world, then i would put that down as pretty despicable, im sure he didnt even know of any of those stats either. BUt compare him to lawrence in the photo on his honkers, and everything he has come out saying since playing for Ireland, and i think you get the picture...

Traps stubborness, awkwardness about adapting, about only picking players for 1 position, that play in only 1 position, is really coming back to bite him hard now that we have had a few injuries.

Versatility is key in a squad if only 2 players. Its why oshea is still at united and played in a CL final. Trap comes across as intelligent, thats what really surprises me here.

And anybody who thinks that a russian team that can come to dublin and play like that, are going to have any worries in macedonia is deluded. Macedonia might trouble them, but russia playing like that will trouble them far more.

[paul_oshea]

It is worth noting that when a player gives a 100% of what he has, we can't ask for any more, can we? We have opinions on the quality, but the 100% effort was 100% honest and in stark contrast to his partner who hid when he was incapable of performing.
So Green is perfectly entitled to claim any shirt he wants.
Your attitude in throwing around strong sarcastic comments around that action is indeed despicable

Going on that then, you must feel sorry for him. And admit that its Traps fault.

[Real ale Madrid]

We have huge problems in midfield and selection has to reflect the problems we had on Friday night.

I'd have started Fahey ahead of McGeady on Friday night as he is a much more solid option, better defensively and a harder worker. McGeady left Kilbane exposed on the RHS numerous times and that effectively cost us the game, as it was down that flank where the 2nd russian goal was created. If Fahey starts then its quite possible we would have stayed in the game for longer. Of course its easy to analyse after the event but I would have set up the team a little bit more cautiously against a technically superior outfit.

Conversely - Slovakia look like a much more direct team - they are certainly not as slick an outfit and with less defensive responsibilites, McGeady should get the nod tomorrow night. He is one of the few players we have who can beat opposition full-backs and create opportunities for others. Fahey doesn't have his natural ability.

In the middle Green and Whelan were both poor, but Whelan showed he can play to some extent at this level in the past so Gibson has to come into the side in place of Green. To be honest I have no idea how Green got into the team in the first place, and he has done nothing to suggest he should stay there.

Lawerence barely kicked the ball on Friday night but he probably deserves another go because he has done well in the past.

I was surprised Trap set the team up so open against such a quality side. I think there is alot of mis-placed optimism around the place due to our performances against Italy and France at the end of the last campaign. We are not going to be able to play like we did against France in every game. Friday night gave us a bit of a reality check of what we are capable of, and may turn out to be a bit of a blessing in the long run, especially if we get some kind of a result tomorrow night.

[paul_oshea]

There is no big secret to how we played in Paris or in Bari. The other teams backs off - wants to hold their advantage and back off from closing us down in our half.
The problem we have when teams put us on under pressure, we get into a total flux.
When teams come to Dublin, close down our back 4, close down any attempt to bring the ball through midfield, we are chronically incapable of doing anything other than lump it long in response. This has been happening for years.
One midfielder who can play is not enough. We saw that with Andy Reid, when he was targeted, we were scuttled. There is an dearth of that required technical ability on the ball and the movement into positions to receive the ball.

Bad weather and ignorant underage coaches all to blame. Seriously though it is.

Yes , optimism a word i mentioned before the russia game. France and Italy are terrible, NI drew with Italy at home and we saw their world cup, so too France and how they performed during the world cup.

Geysir summed it up, its easy to pass the ball and move it around when no one is pressuring you or 10 yards near you.

[geysir]

Yep, the absolute basics of football unfortunately. Apart from not having the bare basics we're not too bad I guess.

And thanks for correcting my misspelling.
I did wonder if 'an dearth' could make sense in Gaelic,
'an dearth doom'?