Yup saw that myself and I immediately thought the same.Originally Posted by geysir
The emphatic way on RTE Tuesday, that Brady shot down any hope of Andy Reid returning to the squad, suggest that bridge has been broken beyond repair.
It would appear that it is not just about fitness, ability and playing style.
Yup saw that myself and I immediately thought the same.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
No, centre midfield but he hasn't started a game in the league.
Go on then, offer something constructive. What would Paul O'Shea do? I've worn my heart on my sleeve here repeatedly over the years. I don't know what Paul O'Shea stands for, other than things aren't as good as you'd like.
Funny thing is, Steven Reid gave up international football (wholly justifiably, for a change) for one last crack at a club career that never had any continuity since leaving Millwall. Now he's a non-starter for WBA maybe international football would offer him the involvement he needs. Still, the message of the last few weeks has been that lack of match sharpness from regular football (Robbie, Shay, Dunne (to an extent), Whelan, Kilbane...) is very much to the detriment of Ireland's results. I thought it might actually work to our favour 6 weeks ago but I was totally wrong. Therefore Reid can't be the answer, though maybe Wilson & McCarthy are.
And as I said on the Ciaran Clark thread, just think about the loss of Joey O'Brien, David Meyler and Chris McCann, and Tets added Rowlands. Also add Andrews and that's 5 very serious CM options not available, and to that you can even add Steven Reid and Stephen Ireland. Seriously freaky stuff.
Paul O'Shea wouldn't have lost Dorica on the corner on Tuesday, that's for sure.
was he not used as a right back last year for theM?!
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
Them?was he not used as a right back last year for theM?!
or
He was, yeah, but di Matteo brought in 4 or 5 defenders over the summer. He's midfield back-up now.
Well, the main worry i had was no plan b, and that trap wasn't including enough players of an attacking style in the squad for the eventuality and I say eventuality because it was going to happen, and it did, that we went down a couple of goals, we were chasing the game, and what could we do other than revert to type of hoof it up, kick and hope. Its one thing to say right lets play this way, but the way we play and given the fact that a lot of our players weren't match sharp/match fit/concentration levels weren't up to it, trap should have prepared better,as the old saying goes fail to prepare, prepare to fail. On this occasion it has never been more apt. Everybody was optimistic going into these games, yet the reality was we only had 1 player playing regularly in the top half of the premiership. The others were either coming back from injury or were bit part players with premiership clubs who were not at the races(im purposely excluding champ players here). So someone with the experience in management of Trap, as he likes to remind us and those here used to say at every questioning of trap and his tactics, he surely should have been aware that we would struggle at least in 1 of the games. What did he do? Nothing until it was too late in teh Russia game, and by slovakia he made the necessary changes, forced I might add through injury of others. Trap did not make changes based on what we all said after Russia, he made them because he HAD to. Would he have done so otherwise?
The rest has been gone over again and again(i.e. who to include, what formation we should have used, changing tactics quicker/formation - again all comes down to having a plan b or being prepared, in the scenario where things might not actually go your way), but i think its been fairly clear over the last 9 days or so, where I was coming from.
Hindsight is a great thing and its easy to say that we should have done this and that, however some were saying that trap should have been doing this all along. We might now be in a far better position if he had.
Last edited by paul_oshea; 14/10/2010 at 4:07 PM.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
cheers CD, ok wheres tets when you need him, how many minutes has he played this season?
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
full 90 for 2 carling cup games (inc a win vs Man City) then he's come off the bench for the last 15 mins or so in 4 of their 7 games, been an unused sub in the other 3
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players...d=5081&cc=5739
From http://irish-abroad.appspot.com/Play...1&seasonID=140
(assuming a 90 minute game)
introduced VS Sunderland on 82 minutes = 8 minutes
completed game VS Orient = 90 minutes
introduced VS Tottenham on 73 minutes = 13 minutes
completed game VS Man City = 90 minutes
introduced VS Birmingham on 76 minutes = 14 minutes
introduced VS Arsenal on 71 minutes = 19 minutes
Total minutes = 234 minutes played thus far this season
Paul, what is Trap's plan B to be? You say he needed a plan B because only one player plays in the top half of the EPL. No plan B including other personnel was likely to work in that case. The kick & hoof we resorted to as plan B yielded 2 goals! There were attacking players in the squad: Long, Keogh, Fahey, Gibson. They all featured in the two games. Treacy was unavailable, and we all know Duff & Hunt were too.
Most criticism is correctly aimed at central midfield. I won't argue for Trap's omission of Andy Reid, though match fitness was questionable last week. McCarthy excepted, we can't just magic up a bunch of quality midfielders. Though I would pick McCarthy myself, being an ever present at Wigan isn't a compelling argument to pick anyone. I like Wilson too. I'm sure Trap would have looked at each in May if they had come over for training.
You might well make me agree with you, but you'll have to present a better argument. As I say I'm 60/40 in Trap's favour. I'm bitterly disappointed that we have shown no variation in shape and little variation in tactics which is what I expected when he took over. However, with so many players injured or not match fit, or having barely established themselves at their clubs, I've got to cut the guy a bit of slack. I think we did enough to win on Tuesday and a fit Robbie would probably have rendered this discussion irrelevant.
Yes, agreed, though of the players named was any of them a realistic option last week? Wilson maybe - Trap was very positive about him in The Examiner (below). In fact that article just copperfastens the view that we are missing shed loads of players.
http://www.examiner.ie/sport/soccer/...th-133512.html
Another article saying he might be flexible, but he remains very cautious arguing we must treat the Celtic cup matches seriously.
I dunno - I'm torn. For all his conservatism, which I do find frustrating, very frustrating, we were missing players or fielding players short of fitness. The sheer number of players affected can only have been detrimental and in fairness the newbies acquitted themselves very well. If McCarthy, Wilson & Ward had all turned up in May then maybe the jigsaw would be nearer completion, but they didn't. We can say Trap is conservative, but I can't think of many Irish (or other) managers who fielded a rookie in an important qualifier without looking at him in practice first.
I can see the merit in a 5 man midfield to give greater numbers but dropping one of Doyle & Keane is a bold move - or would have been in hindsight. Valuable player that he is, the "rule" that Keane is undroppable may no longer hold.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 14/10/2010 at 6:40 PM.
If we went 4-5-1 then you'd have to have Doyle as your focal point. The lone man needs to be able to hold the ball up, be strong, win headers and link the play. It's hard on Keane but if it's for the good of the team then he'll have to grin and bear it.
4-5-1 doesn't have to be negative if the two wide players get forward and support. The third central midfielder can also support when in possession of the football. I'm not a huge fan of the formation but if more and more teams are using it then we need to adapt. If we are getting outnumbered in midfield then it's surely common sense to make a change and match them up? I think Di Matteo at WBA has done this on a couple of occasions this season at half time after 4-4-2 resulted in them seeing very little of the football. It made a difference as well and they went on to dominate the second half.
"If God had meant football to be played in the air, he'd have put grass in the sky." Brian Clough.
You'll NEVER beat the Irish.......you'll just draw with us instead!!!
From reading the links provided, it appears Trappatoni is opening up to personnel and tactical change. Something I personally wouldn't have expected from him, especially in the middle of a qualifying campaign. I have to be sceptical to some degree though - is he beginning to panic at the thought that this £2m a year gravy train might come to an end this time next year?
His notion of a five man midfield is interesting. He has obviously been entertaining the idea of playing someone behind the main striker since he took over, but maybe now his hand is being forced a bit. I wonder has Robbie Keane become droppable in Trap's mind? Doyle has more form and playing time, so it would be crazy to drop him if Keane's situation continued at Spurs.
The Norway game is becoming an evermore interesting fixture. As I said in another post, I would leave Keane in London for it. If he comes over and scores another goal, what difference does it make. We all know he could probably score against Norway. Sacrificing him to give Long/Stokes/Walters game time would be way more beneficial. Maybe two from Long/Stokes/Doyle/Walters as a forward combination for the first half with a McCarthy + one of above for the second. I'm not quite sure what all the fuss is about Walters, I've seen him a few times, he's robust and plays up front. That's about it. He's no saviour. I think we overvalue the Premier League like that, he's only been playing in it about 6 weeks. Realisitcally how much could he have improved since he was at Ipswich?
'And Crouch must score'
I don't think so. Sure he could make more than that in club management and still delegate most of the work to Marco. I think he's just realised like the rest of us that we may not have the players for 442 anymore than we do for 451 and that we may have been slightly flattered in the last campaign as Italy, France and Bulgaria all play a slow, technical game as opposed to a quick technical one.
I always wondered what happened to his notion of Robbie being the Irish "Totti" - I assume that was another casualty of Steven Reid's departure and our lack of a similarly athletic box to box runner.His notion of a five man midfield is interesting. He has obviously been entertaining the idea of playing someone behind the main striker since he took over, but maybe now his hand is being forced a bit. I wonder has Robbie Keane become droppable in Trap's mind? Doyle has more form and playing time, so it would be crazy to drop him if Keane's situation continued at Spurs.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
I take your point. But would a manager as experienced as Trappatoni not realise that we would need to play a team technical football at a quicker pace. The draw was made in February. We've had friendlies against Brazil, Paraguay, Algeria and Argentina, did he play a 4-5-1 in any of those? At least Brazil and Argentina play a quick paced game and we lost both of these. Surely a penny must have dropped?
'And Crouch must score'
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks