Ireland - Corrupt, bankrupt and no future

[Mr A]

Unfortunately we know what will happen if an election is called, and a non-FF led alliance takes over.

1. The new government discovers that the problem is bigger than realised.
2. An announcement to the effect is made.
3. A far harsher budget than feared is enacted.
4. The country weeps.
5. FF rally and announce that the new government is responsible for this hardship.
6. Things get worse before they get better.
7. FF continue to call into question the government's austerity package.
8. Things take a turn for the better after 3-4 years.
9. The government roll the dice and call an election based on the moderate improvement in the economy.
10. FF sweep the election, claim that the subsequent continued growth has been down to their being in government, and install themselves until the next downturn.

It's not just economies that move in cycles...

That's so scary because I can see it happening.

I don't see Cooldog doing much about this either. Another bluffer.

Cool dog is unmoved.

[Spudulika]

I mentioned on another thread (when they were selling the bonds last week) about the IMF, it will be an absolute business boom for FF and the criminals who keep them in power. The ESB will be broken up and sold off, our transport, water, waste collection, media, all will go. As too will hospitals, regulations on education will loosen and the country will be on a 6 year cycle of stability and collapse, each time sinking deeper into debt and destruction - and without anything left to sell off! If FF can be removed we might be saved, though it's looking bleak. Yet I still think we'll get through it.

[elroy]

The same ESB who with little or no competition in its sector, feels the need to award its Chief Executive with a remuneration package in excess of 600k.

[Noelys Guitar]

Bertie the Bowl has been dis-invited from a speech to Castlebar Chamber of commerce after one individual local decided to start a campaign against said Bowl's appearance. More of these type of protests please. Run them out of town.

[Bluebeard]

And, as if to confirm the newly acquired international status of Ireland as a corrupt, bankrupt and nowhere banana type republic filled with dubious practices, here is a spam email I got today:

My Name is Kevin Barrett from ACCBank,Dublin,Ireland.A contracted staff of perez and Hamilton Inform you about Mr.Mohammed Abdul Ramah who had an investment Placed under our bank 10 years ago.In 1997,the subject matter ,Abdul involved our bank in a business transaction he was discovered dead and left a portolio of 9,000,000.00 USD in our bank.He left no next of kin in his file,that is where you come in acting as the next of kin to the deceased.i will explain better as soon as i get back your response to assist,you will have 40% of the funds.If interested please call me on Tel:+447031965734
+447031965734
Note:contact me via my confidentail mail address:kevinbarrett64@yahoo.com I advise you keep the content of the mail confidential and respect the integrity of the information in this mail.

Coincidentally, I used to know a guy called Kevin Barrett, who may have been the type to try something like this in a fix, though he was a good ten years younger than this guy's email addy suggests.

Does this mean that Ireland can now be twinned with Uganda, Nigeria, and everywhere else these scams are set?

[dahamsta]

The same ESB who with little or no competition in its sector, feels the need to award its Chief Executive with a remuneration package in excess of 600k.

While I dislike the excessive renumeration of chief executives in general, particularly when they're so often, bizarrely, rewarded for incompetence, the question has to be asked: how does this compare to the renumeration packages of their opposites in Airtricity, Bord Gais, etc?

Another thing that people tend to forget about the ESB is that they're in the utterly crazy position at the moment of not being allowed to compete in any way, shape or form.

[Macy]

Another thing that people tend to forget about the ESB is that they're in the utterly crazy position at the moment of not being allowed to compete in any way, shape or form.

And when they had a complete monopoly we had one of the cheapest electricity prices in the EU. Only since competition and regulation have we gone to near the top of the table - to who's benefit, as it's clearly not the joe soap consumer? Not that this gets mentioned when the usual suspects give out about wages in ESB of course.

[Comic Book Guy]

As some of the previous posters have said FF need to be removed from power and kept out for at least a generation. Can I see this happening? Not a hope unfortunately. A friend of mine keeps telling me it's not an election we need but a new electorate.
Just brace yourself for what's coming in December.
BTW when you get a party that has been in power for about 20 of the last 25 years then it's inevitable that croneyism, nepotism and downright corruption will permeate every facet of Irish life. It would take at least a generation IMO to root this culture out.
I think this country is ripe for a new political party, all the old ones have failed, you are after all being asked to vote for 2 cheeks of the same arse.
A new party that would eliminate the criminal wastage in our many (and unnecessary quangos), tackle the public service unions for real, most importantly of all sort the banks out that will mean you and I and our offspring will not have to pay for years to come for the greed, stupidity and arrogance of a golden circle.

[Spudulika]

The new jobbers who are leading Anglo are part of this cronyism. Between them they hold large number of Directorships bequeathed to them by the State, Dukes is a leader in this. Yet we're supposed to believe they are the ones who can solve the problem of Anglo, but how?

Also, has anyone seen who is Lenihan's new Special Financial Advisor is? It's getting more shocking!

[Macy]

A new party that would eliminate the criminal wastage in our many (and unnecessary quangos), tackle the public service unions for real, most importantly of all sort the banks out that will mean you and I and our offspring will not have to pay for years to come for the greed, stupidity and arrogance of a golden circle.

It worked with the PD's, no reason it wouldn't work with another new right wing party.

[mypost]

ORA, just on the point of home ownership - we've been greatly affected by the English disease that a man's home is his castle. From my experience it's similiar to anglicised areas in Canada (at least on the East Coast) and the USA. We are essentially (the Irish) a rural and agricultural people for whom a stamp of grass is a mark of status.

There was even a film made about it, it may have been 20 years ago, but grass is grass. People were prepared to do anything to get it.

"The Field"

[elroy]

Reading the Sunday papers is grim stuff these days. The toughest Budget in years, continual over spending and waste from our 'government', the spiraling cost of borrowing for the Irish exchequer, expensive meandering tribunals, the list goes on.

I just want to get people's thoughts on what they think is needed to be done to pull us out of this recession (depression?). A key determinant to many appears to be the reduction in our borrowing rates. However, the moves made so far have done little to stop this spiral. What can we as a country do to reverse this? We are already at a rate above which Greece were when they were bailed out. Is a bail out inevitable for us at this stage?

[Mr A]

At this stage I honestly think it's too late.

The clock is ticking on our economic sovereignty. 3-4 months tops before the IMF are in charge.

[mypost]

Reading the Sunday papers is grim stuff these days. The toughest Budget in years.

I just want to get people's thoughts on what they think is needed to be done to pull us out of this recession (depression?). However, the moves made so far have done little to stop this spiral. What can we as a country do to reverse this?

Nothing basically. Like any person in debt, we have to balance the books.

Doesn't help that the Finance Department and Lenihan always get their figures wrong though.

At this stage I honestly think it's too late.

The clock is ticking on our economic sovereignty. 3-4 months tops before the IMF are in charge.

We lost what was left of our economic sovereignty 13 months ago. No point in complaining about it now.

[Macy]

I just want to get people's thoughts on what they think is needed to be done to pull us out of this recession (depression?). A key determinant to many appears to be the reduction in our borrowing rates. However, the moves made so far have done little to stop this spiral. What can we as a country do to reverse this? We are already at a rate above which Greece were when they were bailed out. Is a bail out inevitable for us at this stage?

An election.

The current Government has no credibility with the markets, so it doesn't matter what it says or does.

The current Government also has no mandate and perhaps more importantly at this point in time, no majority to implement changes domestically, which feeds into the credibility issues. Morning Ireland was all about Government supporters saying pensions are untouchable ffs.

We've a lame duck Government - the markets can see it, the country can see it, but FF/Green Interest is first and foremost in the minds of the cabinet.

Will an election avoid a bail out? I'm not sure whether things have gone too far with what a new Government will be left, but it's our best chance!

[mypost]

They do have a majority, albeit a very small one, but they have a majority and are able to implement changes because of it. Whether they're the right changes is a different matter.

[OneRedArmy]

1. General Election

2. Completely overhaul the tax base and make it simpler. Broaden the taxbase at the bottom and top ends, move focus from indirect to direct taxes.

3. Reduce unemployment benefit for long-term unemployed (>3 years by 30%) and implement stricter jobseeking activity requirements (e.g. evidence to be provided of regular job searching or benefits reduced).

4. Serious job creation initatives, with tax breaks for companies, increased R&D support plus support for SME's and entrepreneurial start ups. Increase funds to be required to be provided by banks to start-up companies meeting basic requirements (e.g. Leader Programme completion), with a certain amount of seed money (e.g. €50-100k) to be provided without fixed security.

5. Full default on all subordinated bank bonds and negiotated default on senior debt with EU/IMF (i.e. partial forgiveness or significantly extended repayment period (20 years)

[Royal rover]

you make some good points there One Red - but personally whilst i agree with your whole idea job creation initatives - i think many who benefited fronm the tax breaks will find it difficult to return again - i remember my CEO having a meeting with Cowen when he was minister for Finance - and he basically announced the end of the tax break - at the time my CEO said the company would never of moved to Dublin if they didn't think the breaks would be more long term - eventually they'll wind it down they have roughly gone from 600 staff in 2007 - to about 350 now , the biggest problem ireland has now amongst the main player is our reputation is more a less in ruins- the whole issue around entrepreneurial start ups is that the funding will not be there in the short term from the banks or EU - i think the banks are very aware that once interest rates rise we will see a further influx of mortgage defaults - this coupled with reduced social welfare payments will have people on the streets - and even those who regarded as middle - class will be left homeless , i genuinely believe that within 4 years you will be able to buy a 2 bed apartment in dublin city for under 100k - and i expect the housing market to drop more than most people believe possible

[mypost]

3. Reduce unemployment benefit for long-term unemployed (>3 years by 30%) and implement stricter jobseeking activity requirements (e.g. evidence to be provided of regular job searching or benefits reduced).

Already done. Made no difference.

[Macy]

They do have a majority, albeit a very small one, but they have a majority and are able to implement changes because of it. Whether they're the right changes is a different matter.

It doesn't have the necessary majority - hence all the crap about leaving one section of society untouched (pensioners) by being faced down by back benchers and the Greens, and the inevitable caving to JHR and Lowry.