Riots in Dublin

[Colm]

Not a big fan of the protests, but storm in a teacup really. They hardly did much damage (not exactly on the scale of G7 riots) and in response the water cannon wouldn't knock snow off a rope. But if I had known Brendan O'Connor was there I would have joined the protests myself.

I thought you were having your own protest with Alan Hunter.

[SÓC]

What "security" reasons?
The Ashtown roundabout is 3 - 4 miles away from Farmleigh.There is no security issue there.

I dont know why but the Gardaí decided that there was a security issue relating to it. If the protesters had a problem witht hat they should have either a) Protested PEACEFULLY about it or b) take legal action, something thing along the lines of judicial review.

The answer is simple. This is fast becoming a totalitarian state, and your party and their partners are eagerly aping some of the methods of those "socialist" state you all profess to hate soo much.

Eh? It was a great day for free seach, except for those who turned violent.

We have our very own politburo, no dissent is allowed, no opposing opinions is countenanced, it's members can use public money to do whatever they feel like, anybody who complains is abused and ridiculed, and all the little party clones must be "on message", i.e. do and say excatly what they are told by the central propoganda office.

Yea and the UN is invading Ireland in black choppers. People have the right to protest and show dissent all they want. Christ we can vote out the Government if we see fit. Sorry but people dont have the right to attack Gardaí, just as the Gardaí had no right to attack the Reclaim the Streets crowd.

Surely you can do better than simply parroting the words of your leaders?
Do any of you actually know the meaning of the word?

I know but I wonder do the Irish people care for it? I mean how many real socialist did we the Irish people elect in the last election.....hummm...

Here are a few completely accurate descriptions of some of your party ilk.
Arrogant, incompetent, racist, intolerant, corrupt, criminal..the list goes on.
All a hell of a lot worse than describing someone as being in favour of living in a society as opposed to an economy.

Fair enough if thats the way you want to look at this, but then again I could call the socialist ilk gun Runners, tax dodgers, terrorists, bitter, oppertunist, jeallous, then again name calling never got anyone anywhere did it Patsh.

[patsh]

I dont know why but the Gardaí decided that there was a security issue relating to it. If the protesters had a problem witht hat they should have either a) Protested PEACEFULLY about it or b) take legal action, something thing along the lines of judicial review.

Eh? It was a great day for free seach, except for those who turned violent.

Yea and the UN is invading Ireland in black choppers. People have the right to protest and show dissent all they want. Christ we can vote out the Government if we see fit. Sorry but people dont have the right to attack Gardaí, just as the Gardaí had no right to attack the Reclaim the Streets crowd.

The Gardai can claim anything they like.
Your party decided that the Gardai could basically do what they liked, all in the name of "security". You cannot bring a security issue up for judical review, the Courts are hardly going to get involved.
Ahern and McDowell decided it wouldn't be nice to have people spoiling their little ego show, so spend plenty of money on keeping the plebs in their place.
The Protesters did protest peacefully. A tiny number of people are alleged to have turned violent. Why hose people off the streets for excercising their democratic rights?
And don't keep saying they turned violent. People who were simply standing, and by their presence showing their protest, were hosed and coralled.
And then you do the usual FF waffle and rant about something that nobody has stated. Just where did I say it was Ok to attack Gardai, or attack anyone at all?

I know but I wonder do the Irish people care for it? I mean how many real socialist did we the Irish people elect in the last election.....hummm...

Just what is your hangup with "Socialism" or "socialists"?
You sound like those American, right wing freaks who think every single wrong in the world can be blamed on the "commies". You just sound like a broken record of McCreevy. He can't actually think of anything intelligent to say, so he bleats the phrases "pinko" and "socialists" out constantly. He must have got his little buddy Dunphy to think them up for him...
The Labour party, certain members of the Greens and one or two independents between then would have received around 26% - 27% in the last election, a sizeable portion of the electorate, and these people would see themselves as Socialist and espouse a view of Ireland where a fair and just society is seen as the superior and prime objective, not an economy.

Fair enough if thats the way you want to look at this, but then again I could call the socialist ilk gun Runners, tax dodgers, terrorists, bitter, oppertunist, jeallous, then again name calling never got anyone anywhere did it Patsh.

Name one socialist TD or elected councillor who has run guns, dodged tax or is a terrorist?
As far as I know, no one in FF/PD has actually stooped to running guns yet, (well not since the late 60's, early 70's anyway), but I'm sure if there is a buck in it, it won't be long.
As for "oppertunist, jeallous," the FF party could give lessons to the world on those particular themes.

[Footie_Fan]

I would like to congratulate the Gardaí on a job well done yesterday. They responded well to provacation and protected the road to the EU leaders.

Who these people think they are throwing bottles and bricks at unarmed Gardaí. What were they expecting a pat on the back? The water from the cannon was probably the first wash for many of them for a while.

[Ringo]

The Labour party, certain members of the Greens and one or two independents between then would have received around 26% - 27% in the last election, a sizeable portion of the electorate, and these people would see themselves as Socialist and espouse a view of Ireland where a fair and just society is seen as the superior and prime objective, not an economy.

Name one socialist TD or elected councillor who has run guns, dodged tax or is a terrorist?
.

http://republican-news.org/archive/1...ry16/16tv.html

Frank Ross AKA Proinsias De Rossa

Sinn Fein = sinn Fein The workers party = The workers party = democratic Left = The labour party.

Tomás MacGiolla was interned in the Curragh as a result of the border campaign, as was Proinsias De Rossa, who was part of a Fianna Eireann colour party at Sabhat's funeral, while Ruairí O Brádaigh, directly involved in the campaign, also ended up in a Nissen hut.

MacGiolla tried to differentiate between the IRA of 1957 and the IRA of 1997, much as Fianna Fáilers and Fine Gaelers do when they speak of the `Old' IRA. He accused the modern manifestation of sectarianism while De Rossa described the ``lifelong journey'' which led him from the Curragh to the gravy train. Ní Mhurchadha could have answered their jibes but while the programme makers allowed MacGiolla and De Rossa to respond to her comments, she was not afforded the same luxury. You also got the impression at the end that while for Proinsias De Rossa history has conveniently disappeared, for Ruairí O Brádaigh it has stood still.

[liamon]

Have to agree with Conor's view on Labour. They're about as socilaist as Tony (pro-business, 3rd level fees) Blair.
I worked in a Co. where Dick Spring was a director. I didn't see any major sharing of wealth with us lowly workers.

[pete]

Protesters looked like middle class socialist south siders up on a day trip to the north side.

Ashtom gate is just down the road from me so would say maybe 2 miles or so from Farmleigh although maybe only a mile from the protected helipad.

Got the impression guards just used ther water cannon cos they had borrowed it & wanted to get some use/practice plaus maybe those hippies smelled a bit.

Driving through the Phoenix Park yesterday & the helipad being dis,mantle but looked like British Army barrack in the norht

[patsh]

Frank Ross AKA Proinsias De Rossa

What exactly was De Rossa interned for?

What have MacGiolla and O'Bradaigh got to do with Labour?
What have they got to with the Dail?

MacGiolla is long gone, and O'Bradaigh would be an abstentionist, would he not?
Try to stay on the topic of my post, please.

Then we again get Conor's personal opinion on Dick Spring.
It's hardly conclusive evidence of anything is it?

And liamon provides his "evidence" by saying that as a director of a company, he didn't share the wealth of the company with the workers....
Well if you think that Socialism will mean even wealth for everybody, why not do everything in your power to get them into Government?

I do not say that everything that FF do is wrong. There are some good legislation on the Statute books in the last few years. The smoking ban, the plastic bag tax, and most importantly, the ban on the TDs being allowed to be councillors are all pieces of valuable and far sighted law.
However, on a regular basis, we see FF TD after FF TD being found out or caught doing something they shouldn't. This contempt for politics is eating away all respect for politicians and the system of Government in the country. We have the PDs hectoring us all the time about they are 100% right and we are all wrong/we can't understand/we don't know what they know.
Lets take a simple example. Cullen tells us all how wrong we are about e-voting, we don't know what we are talking about, we are luddites. Ahern claims he doesn't need advice from anyone, sure isn't Ireland leading the world in software.
We then find out that this system
- comes from Holland, why not make it here in Ireland, the worlds SW leader?
- has never been tested ONCE against an actual election.
- Development of the SW has even finished yet.
- It is easy to hack into.
So what do Cullen and Ahern do?
Cullen basically says f*ck off, so what, I've only wasted €50 million.
If he had once acknowledged that there could be difficulties with the system, invited opinions on it, then he could be entitled to carry on.
But no, he knew best and we were all whingers and idiots.
We now have an incompetent ignoramus as Minister for Environment.
Can you lot not see the damage that does to the whole system. If he had resigned, said it was a mess, he would have gained some bit of respect.
McCreevy utterly ignored the rules and methods by which projects are funded. Maybe Punchestown is a completely deserving project and should have got the money anyway.
But now?
There is always a question mark over it, a feeling that dodgy dealings went on.
All this endless carry on and and the criminal element of quite a few members of FF is destroying the country. It gives the lead to anybody that "they are all at it, so we might as well be too".
The current Government only look at the price of something, never the value.
The amount of people completely alienated to politics is growing by the day. They see all politicans as the same, only looking out for number one. This eats into the soul and fabric of whats left of society here.
Yet all this problem mostly stems from FF, and all you FF followers can only make snide and mocking comments about other parties, without once facing up to the damage FF and the PDs are doing. It's easy to use the word Socialist as an insult, its a hell of a lot harder to try to figure out what exactly your party and partners in Government actually are and what they really stand for, if anything.

[Macy]

Talk is cheap. Labour are good at it,

And what of Fianna Fail? Want some cheap talk, have a look at some of the press conferences and material before the last general election....

You ain't going to get me to defend Spring, however being a socialist/left wing doesn't mean you have to be poor. It's about fairness not poverty. You bring up eircom, yet what were those that invested in for - just the fun of playing stock broker or profit? Personally I'm against privatisation (even one where the Union/Workers have done alright), and didn't agree with Spring being involved.

So what do FF stand for, bar power for the sake of power?

[Eric]

Great to hear peoples views on what happened on saturday night and your views on whether the gardai acted correctly or not. Now, how many of ye were actually there????

[patsh]

Yeah, of course your statments are facts and mine are opinions. Come on, you can do better.

The wrongs of Cooper Flynn, Haughey, Burke, Foley, Ellis, Collins etc.etc. etc are factually correct, well documented and some have been found so by the courts of this country.
FACT: Cullen did make a mess of e-voting
FACT: McCreevy did ignore his own departments procedures.
NOT ONE opinion there. Stating that "Dick Spring is as leftwing as Trump" is subjective opinion.

Conor, anytime there is criticism of FF, your entire response is to go on about Micheal Lowry, Emmet Stagg, have a go at Dick Spring or Pat Rabbite and question what the Labour party/Socialism stands for.
You NEVER address the questions about FF/PD. You maybe say they are not perfect or some equally mild statement.
Ahern claimed not too long ago that he was left wing, and that he was concerned and he was for "justice fairness and equality for all". So why has he done the complete opposite?
Now nobody has ever suggested, as far as I can remember, that the Labour/Greens or even FG would turn the country into Utopia.
You are such a staunch defender of FF.
Are you a member?
If so, have you done ANYTHING about the criminals in your party, or do you just content yourself with pointing out the wrongs of Lowry etc?
Can you tell me honestly what FF actually really stand for?
(And not the complete abuse of language that the FF spin office disgorges)

[pete]

I don't talk (to) FF is cheap at all. Surely cost a few thousand for a chat with a Minister?

[SÓC]

If so, have you done ANYTHING about the criminals in your party

What criminals?

[WeAreRovers]

SóC - Having met you I'm genuinally shocked at your comments on this thread. Like you I've little time for middle-class, leftie hippies but there is an agenda in this country (from FF, McDowell, GRA, Tony O'Reilly media) towards a dilution of our personal freedoms.

What happened last week and on Saturday was media hype and hysteria followed by huge Garda over-reaction. The over reaction was justified by the hype leading up to it. So the forces of right wing repression win the day.

Saturday was a black day for our country and for our liberties. I was at Doyle's Corner two weeks ago and that was way worse than what happened on Saturday. And Doyle's Corner was a storm in a tea cup.

KOH

[SÓC]

SóC - Having met you I'm genuinally shocked at your comments on this thread. Like you I've little time for middle-class, leftie hippies but there is an agenda in this country (from FF, McDowell, GRA, Tony O'Reilly media) towards a dilution of our personal freedoms

Fair enough, maybe I'm just nieve but I really dont see it.

Well, I do but not in the way you see it. Every politicial party/group as an agenda. Independent News has very little time for FF but even less for those on the left. Labour have an agenda, sure they got into bed with FF when it suited them when the "working group" got together. The oppositions agenda is always to pick up on Government policy and make a song and dance about it, hype things out of proportion. It always has been. FF did it when in opposition and will do so again when (if sorry Patsh) they find themselves on that side of the house.

Doyles Corner was a f-up by the Gardaí. Shows badly why we need a Garda Ombudsman. I agree the GRA is a fudge.

They did their job quiet well, from what I've seen (although everything I've seen is based on media reports) on Mayday. Unarmed Gardaí were attacked by a group of Lorcans, Fiachras, Sorchas and Cabáistes from Dalkey, Caslteknock and Sandymount all in the name of socialism and Anti-Global etc. To me that is sad. Why not keep it peaceful. I'm all for protest. If people feel they have to protest let them do it, they have a constitutional right to do so. But when the bloody fools go messing thinking they are still in the school yard in Blackrock College they deserve to get a shower and the Gardaí have the right to protect themselves.

Look at yesterday everything went off ok.

I've just got very little time for D4 or RCYC Socialist. At least the Joe O'Higgins and SF are principled when it comes to their politicial leanings.

[liamon]

Then we again get Conor's personal opinion on Dick Spring.
It's hardly conclusive evidence of anything is it?

And liamon provides his "evidence" by saying that as a director of a company, he didn't share the wealth of the company with the workers....
.

Actually, I wasn't serious about him sharing the wealth with us employees. But Dick Spring does hold a number of directorships within Ireland and makes a significant amount of money from them. He's a capitalist, not a socialist.

I just don't see a credible socilaist party in Ireland at the moment.

[patsh]

Yet again, Conor, you have to bring up some implication about Labour in your sort of reply to me, (if I remember it was Ahern who implemented the amnesty, and FF were the bigger party in coalition), and then go on again to disparage Dick Spring.....

btw, Do you really think FF stand for the same things as the PDs, the Greens or even Sinn Fein?
Personally I would place FF along with FG, Labour more or less with the Greens, and let the two extremist parties crawl around in their own murky little sewers.

To Eric, lots of people weren't at the crucifiction either, but they still believe it happened. As well Sky News went "live" to the protest and had a camera which relayed pictures for all to see. btw, I didn't see any big public display/press conference showing all the missiles and weaponry used against the Gardai the other night? On top of that, I genuinely believe that the vast majority of Gardai are decent people. Its their political masters I don't trust.

SOC, did you not know that bribery, corruption and tax evasion are against the law?

[SÓC]

SOC, did you not know that bribery, corruption and tax evasion are against the law?

Oh Patsh I know very well. I also cant recall any one TD being convicted? Thankfully in Ireland people have the presumption of innocence until proved guilty.

[Duncan Gardner]

In fairness, boarding school, Trinity, Kings Inns, rugby caps for Ireland...not exactly the Joe O'Higgin's school of socialism.

In fact socialism is a broad church. My own CV includes boarding school, Trinity College Dublin, sometime law student, Methodist College 4th XV

[patsh]

Oh Patsh I know very well. I also cant recall any one TD being convicted? Thankfully in Ireland people have the presumption of innocence until proved guilty.

The High Court and Supreme Court found that Cooper Flynn did faciltate tax evasion, and therefore lied under oath.
The Flood tribunal found Burke guilty of Corruption.
Foley, Collins admitted themselves that they had evaded tax.
Lawlor has spent 3 terms in jail.
How much more proof do you need before you take your blinkers off?

a group of Lorcans, Fiachras, Sorchas and Cabáistes from Dalkey, Caslteknock and Sandymount all in the name of socialism and Anti-Global etc. ........ But when the bloody fools go messing thinking they are still in the school yard in Blackrock College .......

And here is proof that you do not even know what Socialism means....

You could probably comprehend if they had been dressed in overalls and donkey jackets, called each other "brudder" and "my fellow members", came from Tallaght, Summerhill or Knocknaheeny.......