Are we under-taxed?

[Poor Student]

I'm trying to make a simple point. A lot of people consider that the services currently offered by the state are inadequate as they stand including health, education etc. While I accept that there are inefficiences that prevent these services from being offered at an optimal level we are running a budget deficit of over €18bn just to offer what we currently have. Benno suggested a wide and radical range of things he'd slice off in order to prevent wase and improve basic services. I did a very rough calculation* of how much I think that even that level of radical change would save and even if I'm out by a couple of billion there's still a frightening chasm between state income and expenditure, I was simply trying to highlight how screwed we are. We can abolish all the institutions and spending Benno has suggested and more and it's a drop in the ocean.

*Rough workings. State defence budget is about 1bn. Presidency costs maybe 10m with salary, staff etc? Seanad 100-200m? 3rd world aid about 100m. Quangos several hundred million? I don't think €1.5bn estimate is that far off.

[dahamsta]

It's a very political response though PS. If the savings were 1.5m they'd be worth making, and other people will come up with other savings. I know it's a drop in the ocean, but we've got to start somewhere. Save the pennies, make the pounds like.

I can understand someone feeling defeated and being defeatist, but realism and pragmatism are a better approach imho, since we can't just fold up our tents and leave*. If we go with defeatism, we might as well not fix anything in the health service, the social welfare department, the education system, etc, etc.

But of course we have to. We have to start somewhere.

adam


* Of course we can, individually; I mean as a nation.

[Kingdom]

In relation to the cuts we could be making or trying to implement, I found it a bit disturbing that only now (in the past year) that the Social Welfare and Revenue Commissioners are convening to try and eradicate social welfare fraud and the like. I would have assumed that this type of thing would be exhausted at this stage, insofar as procedures in place and reducing both the expenditure in social welfare and increasing the Revenue income. I find it confusing that our country's brightest only decided to do something when the state is going down the ****ter.

I'd agree with the other poster that mentioned about the expectation we have on our services for what we pay. It's a good point. I think it's hard to have too solid an opinion on the likes of public transport unless you've experienced it in other countries over a decent period of time. If you want German public services and the level of efficiency that they are stereotyped for, you're going to have to pay for it, which we don't I believe, generally anywho.

I generally don't post here as I'm not as well versed as some of you, hopefully I made a bit of sense.

[bennocelt]

Wonder are they closing hospitals in Germany though, doubt it

[SkStu]

great thread.

i have two questions which i would appreciate a simple answer to just to get my head around how things are in Ireland now.

1) how does the levy work?

2) Maybe i read the posts wrong but are people in favour of pumping more money into healthcare (which has proven time and time again to be a complete waste)? Wouldnt stabilisation/freezing of expenditure while forcing healthcare employers to find cost cutting efficiencies be a more prudent and realistic approach?

[Dodge]

In relation to the cuts we could be making or trying to implement, I found it a bit disturbing that only now (in the past year) that the Social Welfare and Revenue Commissioners are convening to try and eradicate social welfare fraud and the like.

Om fairess they've been constantly fighting that battle. Might be highlighting it more now for show but its always been on the agenda

[Macy]

Om fairess they've been constantly fighting that battle. Might be highlighting it more now for show but its always been on the agenda

You also have to look at the political will in fighting it. It was supposedly a cost saving measure to pay benefits direct into bank accounts which obviously facilitated fraud, rather than through post offices where ID and presence is required. The same Government that introduced it, rowed back as a "get tough" policy!

There was also no political appetite from the Galway Tent Host's to clamp down on the endemic practice of de facto employee's being treated as self employed sub contractors in the construction sector.

It's all part of the same light touch regulatory regime, that IBEC were still feckin pushing earlier this week!