War Crimes - US Soldiers - Inhuman Acts

**lopez** · 03/05/2004, 1:32 PM

Originally Posted by eoinh

i know but its peoples lives which count. Is it a hint of racism when thousands of people die and its hardly reported on. Why didnt people march for Rwanda or why arent they marching NOW for Sudan.

Its the same for some companies. Yoy should not be buying products from a whole host of companies.

Exactly. Even now the Rwanda genocide doesn't even bother me, probably because of media reporting at the time, and probably, if I was truly honest, they were Africans.

Same could not be said about Yugoslavia. Had this web site been in existence in 1999 with the postponment of the game, we would have been vocal in our support for the game to be called off.

I've also boycotted loads of companies. French (greenpeace murder and nuclear bombs in South Pacific), Israeli, and since the Iraq war all American companies (except Ben & Jerry's Ice cream after Ben Cohen (I think!) sent me an email basically saying he was not supporting the war). I also don't buy sh*t from English farmers after their attempts to bring this country to its knees in 2000 over the fuel. Bunch of reactionary w*nkers: If they had a hint of left-wing about them they'd have been pummelled by the police. Anyway, boycotting goods is only a good way of making companies either change practices or put pressure on politicians if it is concerted. Past experience suggests it's p*ssing in the wind!

**lopez** · 03/05/2004, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

Hmmm, while obviously the actions of soldiers torturing captured Iraqis is a disgrace, I must admit I can't remember 1 single thread or post condemning the Iraqi regime for human rights abuses for years....

Perhaps that went without saying. For example, if Saddam Hussein's regime was so wonderful for those of us complaining now, how come none of us ever went there.

Firstly this war was about WMD. Then it's about liberation from a tyrannical regime. Both now look like b*llocks. But then to me it was always b*llocks...or rather it was about oil. Put it another way, how would you like it if a son of yours was picked up for stealing a mars bar by the Garda, taken down the police station and beaten to an inch of his life. Pretty p*ssed off, I'd say. Might even call a few 'contacts' in the party and have the cop(s) charged for attempted murder. As someone who's been picked up by the police more than a couple of times in the England - including a visit to Paddington Green (though for drunkeness rather than terrorism) I've been pretty well treated. Or do the 'WOGs' out in Iraq not deserve the same treatment?

**Metrostars** · 03/05/2004, 3:27 PM

Anyone who thinks that the Iraq war is about oil must be smoking some weird stuff or much like the Bush administration, only believes what he wants to believe. I think Bush really wanted to believe the sketchy intelligence from the CIA about Iraq and he perveiced Iraq as a potential threat. Of course this is b**locks as Lopez says but he was critisized for not sorting out Al Queda before 9/11 so he jumped the gun on Iraq. He truely skrewed up with Iraq.
As for the alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners, no excuse for that. Those soldiers responsible have whatever is coming to them.

**lopez** · 03/05/2004, 5:06 PM

Originally Posted by Metrostars

Anyone who thinks that the Iraq war is about oil must be smoking some weird stuff or much like the Bush administration, only believes what he wants to believe. I think Bush really wanted to believe the sketchy intelligence from the CIA about Iraq and he perveiced Iraq as a potential threat. Of course this is b**locks as Lopez says but he was critisized for not sorting out Al Queda before 9/11 so he jumped the gun on Iraq. He truely skrewed up with Iraq.
As for the alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners, no excuse for that. Those soldiers responsible have whatever is coming to them.

Despite the accusation that I smoke the Jamaican peace pipe (I don't unfortunately because of work, but my retirement do will be a festival of it - if I don't fall off the wagon in Amsterdam in June before

) you do speak a lot of sense.

However two things point towards oil being at the very least, a factor. 1. The fast bucks to be made in Iraq. 2. The lack of intervention in other tyranical regimes. (Leaving North Korea alone - they could do some real damage - how about Magabe's Zimbabwe as a soft target? Pursuing his own Kristalnacht against white farmers (not all colonials either) and starving his own people in the bargain, must constitute a regime change, no?!)

Finally, if not actively supporting intervention in Afghanistan, I certainly saw it as a credible part of 'the war on terror'.

**pete** · 04/05/2004, 11:27 AM

Interesting to compare the reactions from US & then British army superiors.

US don't really condemn much but just say not to judge all them based on a few & they'd be dealt with. Families of soldiers charged with cruelty say their son is a hero & should have shot the prisioners.
British condemn the actions & say soldiers have shamed whole army & will be kicked out.

Someone mentioned a joyrider being killed as bad

**Macy** · 04/05/2004, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by pete

British condemn the actions & say soldiers have shamed whole army & will be kicked out.

Thought they were doubting the authenticity of the photos - thought this morning I heard that there were doubts as they weren't standard issue weapons in the photos.

That said, over the weekend, various army blokes and ex-army blokes were on 5live condemning it, but at the same time cautioning that they'd have to investigate and give due process as well.

**pete** · 04/05/2004, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

That said, over the weekend, various army blokes and ex-army blokes were on 5live condemning it, but at the same time cautioning that they'd have to investigate and give due process as well.

Which i think is fair enough.

btw friend in the US said that pics of the US soldiers wasn;t big news as people more concerned about criticism of ex american footballer who killed in Afghanistan.

**lopez** · 04/05/2004, 2:53 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

This thread should hardly pass without reference to the pregnant mother and four children (down to the age of two) who were raked with bullets by Palestinians over the weekend...

Utterly disgraceful, but we'd be posting up numerous more posts about Palestinian kids killed by the Jews for every one Jewish kid.

Originally Posted by davros

Brutality breeds more of the same....the simple fact that a family(albeit who shouldn't be there) were despicably targeted,just shows how the whole situation is out of control.....back to the chicken & egg......

It does, but I disagree about her right to be there. Why shouldn't she live in Palestine as a legal immigrant? And a lot of this land, contrary to belief, was actually bought by the settlers. Wouldn't say I'd have liked it if it was open season on us Paddies in the seventies.

Originally Posted by pete

Someone mentioned a joyrider being killed as bad

Hey, hey, Pete, let's not stop there. How's about kneecapping for speaking your mind?

**pete** · 04/05/2004, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by lopez

Hey, hey, Pete, let's not stop there. How's about kneecapping for speaking your mind?

Nah, don't approve of vigilantism as usually only clearing streets for their own gain.

If a "joy" rider breaks a checkpoint then can't complain if they shot at.

btw one of the best news gathering sites i've seen here

**eoinh** · 04/05/2004, 3:10 PM

Originally Posted by eoinh

i know but its peoples lives which count. Is it a hint of racism when thousands of people die and its hardly reported on. Why didnt people march for Rwanda or why arent they marching NOW for Sudan.

Its the same for some companies. Yoy should not be buying products from a whole host of companies.

Sorry for quoting my own post

but i mention Sudan and then THIS happens.

**eoinh** · 04/05/2004, 3:21 PM

For a brilliant overview of Israel, Palestine, Lebanon,Turkey Syria etc see here .

funnily enough its Syria which comes out as most tolerant to its minorities.

**pete** · 04/05/2004, 3:23 PM

Originally Posted by eoinh

Sorry for quoting my own post

but i mention Sudan and then THIS happens.

That be one of the flaws of the UN regional groupings system. Ain't much can do about in current structure but its only 1 seat amoung 53 so the US being a bit childish.

**Metrostars** · 04/05/2004, 5:22 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Which i think is fair enough.

btw friend in the US said that pics of the US soldiers wasn;t big news as people more concerned about criticism of ex american footballer who killed in Afghanistan.

Gotta disagree with you there. The Pat Tillman story was bigger last week but definetely there is a lot of talk about the abuse stories here now. The investigations have started, not much else to do now until those are finished. The commanders higher up in the units responsible will most likely get canned.

**lopez** · 04/05/2004, 5:40 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Nah, don't approve of vigilantism as usually only clearing streets for their own gain.

Who said anything about vigilantism?

**lopez** · 12/05/2004, 1:48 PM

Well perhaps if Bush's 'war of terror' hadn't been sidetracked, these w*nkers - or those like them - might be the one's getting their heads cut off...perhaps by Saudi Arabia for instance, where there seems to be an abundance of Al Qaeda members resident. Alas, in football parlance, 'Wobblya took his eyes off the ball,' and we're all paying for it.

My sympathy to this bloke's family. His killers deserve to rot in hell.

**Macy** · 12/05/2004, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by lopez

Well perhaps if Bush's 'war of terror' hadn't been sidetracked, these w*nkers - or those like them - might be the one's getting their heads cut off...perhaps by Saudi Arabia for instance, where there seems to be an abundance of Al Qaeda members resident. Alas, in football parlance, 'Wobblya took his eyes off the ball,' and we're all paying for it.

My sympathy to this bloke's family. His killers deserve to rot in hell.

Saudi Arabia where the Government chop of hands of people convicted of stealing. It's disgusting to see, but is it different from watching Bombs dropped on Baghdad live on sky news?

**lopez** · 12/05/2004, 3:04 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Saudi Arabia where the Government chop of hands of people convicted of stealing. It's disgusting to see, but is it different from watching Bombs dropped on Baghdad live on sky news?

I'm against capital punishment in all forms. I'm merely stating that if the Septics had kept their focus on catching the true perveyors of 9-11 or whatever other buzz word you wish to call that event, this man would still be alive, and the people who are engaged in these forms of violence would be more easily dealt with. Instead Wobbleya and Dumbsfeld thought it was clever to invade the latter's old business partner's back yard, ruining in the process any sympathy the US had in the Arab world. I'd compare it with someone who's been assaulted in an Abrakebabra who while waiting for an ambulance helps himself to a free large Doner complete with chili sauce and taboulah. Absolute stupidity!

**lopez** · 12/05/2004, 3:24 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

You think the terrorsists behind 9/11 and this most recent savagery are only doing this as some sort of revenge? These are butchers and murderers, they hardly seek political justification. Whether the US invaded Iraq or not, these people would be carrying on their terrrorist activities anyway, though technically it may be true that this particular individual would be alive. 9/11 itself happened before any invasion of Iraq...

Where did I say anything about revenge. Not for the first time you've come on here, stirred up some sh*t and then misquoted people. So before we continue, as I get the impression sometimes that you are either a. not the full Euro or b. balls haven't dropped or c. a secret lemonade drinker (ie. a p*ss-head), could you please point out to me where I mentioned anything about revenge?