Under 19's away for 10 days in Bulgaria

**Roo69** · 14/10/2010, 3:47 PM

Originally Posted by Flexy

Dodge what rules have Derry broken with regards this. The player obviously felt it was more important to play for his club in such an important game than play for his country on this occassion. I ask you this, what would you have done if it was you. Myself personally Id put my club first as they are paying my wages every week

He should have been using the international games as a showcase for his talents really. Underage International games are packed with scouts form all over Europe, if he has ambitions of playing at a professional level then playing for Ireland should have been put first by himself.

Anyway, as Pineapple Stu as said, Rules have been broken by Derry over this, i don't want to see any action taken but accept that rules have been broken. Jesus just count yourself lucky that he didn't come back injured like Gary Shaw did.

**harps1954** · 14/10/2010, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by VinnyDCFC

I'm trying to get my head around all of this but where did Derry City refuse to release a player?

By Derry saying the player was injuried and pulling him out of the squad. Once they done that, they were saying the player wasn't fit to play in the under-19 game(s) which meant that if he wasn't fit to play for the under-19's, he shouldn't have been fit to play for Derry either (one of the under-19 games was on the same day as Derry played Shels). The last line of the rule says "Any selected player failing to join the panel shall not be permitted to play for his Club for the same period" - the player clearly played for his club during the period of the under-19 internationals.

**Flexy** · 14/10/2010, 3:55 PM

So John Terry doesnt play for england on tuesday due to injury but bet your life he will be playing for chelsea on Saturday, are you telling me that the FA will stop him playing, dont think so. Will FAI stop kevin doyle from playing for Wolves this weekend dont think so, lads its an Under 19 international big tickle, McEleney wanted to play for his club in one of the most important matches of the year instead of playing for the Under 19's. He would rather try and help the club gain promotion to the premier division than play for Ireland

**harps1954** · 14/10/2010, 4:03 PM

Originally Posted by Flexy

So John Terry doesnt play for england on tuesday due to injury but bet your life he will be playing for chelsea on Saturday, are you telling me that the FA will stop him playing, dont think so. Will FAI stop kevin doyle from playing for Wolves this weekend dont think so, lads its an Under 19 international big tickle, McEleney wanted to play for his club in one of the most important matches of the year instead of playing for the Under 19's. He would rather try and help the club gain promotion to the premier division than play for Ireland

But we're not talking about Chelsea, Wolves or the English FA here. We are talking about the FAI Participation Agreement that Derry City and the other 21 clubs signed up to. Derry broke one of these rules. Simple as. If Derry didn't want the player playing, why didn't they seek to release him from the squad instead of pulling him out because of injury. It has happened with squads in the past. Derry tried to pull a fast one and might well have been caught.

**Charlie Darwin** · 14/10/2010, 4:04 PM

Originally Posted by Flexy

So John Terry doesnt play for england on tuesday due to injury but bet your life he will be playing for chelsea on Saturday, are you telling me that the FA will stop him playing, dont think so. Will FAI stop kevin doyle from playing for Wolves this weekend dont think so, lads its an Under 19 international big tickle, McEleney wanted to play for his club in one of the most important matches of the year instead of playing for the Under 19's. He would rather try and help the club gain promotion to the premier division than play for Ireland

The difference is Premier League games don't run concurrently with internationals. Derry pulled their player out of a squad on the premise that he was injured and then played him between two of the international fixtures.

And Kevin Doyle would need a miracle to appear for Wolves this weekend.

**passerrby** · 14/10/2010, 4:14 PM

have the league or derry issued any statement so far. expect copous amounts of fudge to be issued as they want derry back up asap.

**Charlie Darwin** · 14/10/2010, 4:27 PM

I suspect both sides will just keep quiet and it'll blow over.

**CSFShels** · 14/10/2010, 4:37 PM

There is no way we should keep quiet on this. The rules are clearly stated there, and they state he was ineligible. I have my doubts as to whether anything will happen, but there seems to be no grey area here. The rules have been clearly stated and clearly broken. What case could possibly be made in Derry's favour?

**osarusan** · 14/10/2010, 4:43 PM

Originally Posted by CSFShels

There is no way we should keep quiet on this. The rules are clearly stated there, and they state he was ineligible. I have my doubts as to whether anything will happen, but there seems to be no grey area here. The rules have been clearly stated and clearly broken. What case could possibly be made in Derry's favour?

You should object and ask the FAI to check it out. Before doing so, I'd find as much evidence as you can on the net and then print it all off in case the internet pages are mysteriously edited / deleted.

**CSFShels** · 14/10/2010, 5:04 PM

I'm definitely interested to see if Derry fans feel they've a leg to stand on here. There is a report saying Patrick McEleney has withdrawn from the squad due to injury so theres no room for dispute there, there is a rule in the participation agreement stating that a player is ineligible for any games occurring 5 days after the games withdrawn from, McEleney played the day after, scoring 2 goals. There is a LOI precedent set, where a club who field ineligible player have the result given against them as a 3-0 defeat.

Can anyone make any legitimate case in Derry's favour here?

**Sam_Heggy** · 14/10/2010, 5:11 PM

Originally Posted by CSFShels

Can anyone make any legitimate case in Derry's favour here?

They have been perfecting cheating for years?

**Flexy** · 14/10/2010, 5:56 PM

Originally Posted by CSFShels

I'm definitely interested to see if Derry fans feel they've a leg to stand on here. There is a report saying Patrick McEleney has withdrawn from the squad due to injury so theres no room for dispute there, there is a rule in the participation agreement stating that a player is ineligible for any games occurring 5 days after the games withdrawn from, McEleney played the day after, scoring 2 goals. There is a LOI precedent set, where a club who field ineligible player have the result given against them as a 3-0 defeat.

Can anyone make any legitimate case in Derry's favour here?

Sour grapes

Does the FAI team doctor not have to assess if the player if hes being pulled out by injury by the club, or is this another rule the FAI make up themselves. If the player doesnt want to play then its his choice.

**Aaron** · 14/10/2010, 5:58 PM

Originally Posted by Flexy

Sour grapes

Does the FAI team doctor not have to assess if the player if hes being pulled out by injury by the club, or is this another rule the FAI make up themselves. If the player doesnt want to play then its his choice.

I wouldnt be so confident in all this because I have heard a rumour we have been docked 3 points. May just be a Derry rumour though

**dfx-** · 14/10/2010, 6:05 PM

What effect would it have on the table?

**SwanVsDalton** · 14/10/2010, 6:23 PM

Originally Posted by CSFShels

There is a LOI precedent set, where a club who field ineligible player have the result given against them as a 3-0 defeat.

Is there a precedent in the LOI for this particular rule being breached? Just wondering.

Originally Posted by CSFShels

Can anyone make any legitimate case in Derry's favour here?

He withdrew from the squad, via Lourdes, and miraculously recovered.

Originally Posted by dfx-

What effect would it have on the table?

Colossal. If the result was overturned in Shels' favour it would drop Derry from a point clear at the top to trailing Mons by two, and push Shels up third just a point behind Derry. The resultant furore would likely KO our chances in the run-in too.

Originally Posted by passerrby

cant see Derry being that naive as to pull a stroke like this

Enjoy your pleasant vacation on the moon last season? We're in the first division for a reason you know...

**dfx-** · 14/10/2010, 6:33 PM

And do we get our annual asterisk?

**SwanVsDalton** · 14/10/2010, 6:37 PM

Originally Posted by dfx-

And do we get our annual asterisk?

If the result was just overturned, and awarded to Shels 3-0, would that require an asterisk? If we were deducted I suppose we would certainly be in line for the annual Brucey un-bonus.

**Charlie Darwin** · 14/10/2010, 7:04 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

The difference is Premier League games don't run concurrently with internationals. Derry pulled their player out of a squad on the premise that he was injured and then played him between two of the international fixtures.

And Kevin Doyle would need a miracle to appear for Wolves this weekend.

I guess miracles do happen: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/...k_ireland.html

**SwanVsDalton** · 14/10/2010, 7:06 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I guess miracles do happen: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/...k_ireland.html

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

McEleney withdrew from the squad, via Lourdes, and miraculously recovered.

Case closed, Lionel Hutz style.

**pineapple stu** · 14/10/2010, 7:13 PM

Originally Posted by CSFShels

Can anyone make any legitimate case in Derry's favour here?

Their fax machine was broken so they didn't get a copy of the participation agreement?

I think a more pertinent questin is whether there's any way DCFC can come out of this looking good. It does look like a clear, pre-meditated case of deliberate cheating.

Also, Wexford beat Salthill earlier in the season, but the result was changed to 3-0 Salthill cos Wexford fielded a banger. So yes, there's a precedent for the forfeit, and no, this won't break the asterisk duck - there either is one at the moment or there isn't, but that won't change cos of this.