Ciaran Clark D Free agent b.1989

**Charlie Darwin** · 16/09/2013, 6:31 PM

Clark's job has become an awful lot easier as Jores Okore has helpfully had himself ruled out for the rest of the season with a cruciate injury: http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetai...460414,00.html

**SwanVsDalton** · 16/09/2013, 8:00 PM

Great chance for Clark. Straight shoot-out between him and Baker to partner Vlaar. It'll do him a world of good to nail the spot down.

**DeLorean** · 16/09/2013, 8:59 PM

I wonder does Lambert regret not keeping Dunne now? 4 clean sheets out of 4 at QPR.

He'd be perfect to guide the likes of Baker or Clark through games. Vlaar is pretty rash himself from what I've seen.

**SwanVsDalton** · 17/09/2013, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

I wonder does Lambert regret not keeping Dunne now? 4 clean sheets out of 4 at QPR.

He'd be perfect to guide the likes of Baker or Clark through games. Vlaar is pretty rash himself from what I've seen.

Maybe - if he was happy to take a considerably reduced deal. Dunne's wages were the biggest problem but it would have been a gamble on a guy who hadn't played all last season and wouldn't get much of a game this year. I'd say Lambert probably rolled the dice about right. I'm not convinced Dunne is a top-level player anymore.

**DeLorean** · 17/09/2013, 2:10 PM

I'd like to think that Dunne himself would have realised he was never going to get the same kind of deal with his injury problems/age.

To be fair though, it's very much hindsight knowing now that Dunne is actually playing matches again, not to mention the unfortunate injury to poor Okore.

**tricky_colour** · 20/09/2013, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Maybe - if he was happy to take a considerably reduced deal. Dunne's wages were the biggest problem but it would have been a gamble on a guy who hadn't played all last season and wouldn't get much of a game this year. I'd say Lambert probably rolled the dice about right. I'm not convinced Dunne is a top-level player anymore.

Well conceding just 2 goals in 7 games suggests he is not too far off!!!
OK it's the championship but he part of a very solid defence, I think you would have to say he would get into a good
few Premiership defences?
I have not really seen him play this season but he can't be playing too badly judging by the goals conceded.

Actually I just checked and he has only played 5 of the 7 games, so he has not conceded any!!! 450 mins without conceding!!

The only goals he has conceded have been in the qualifiers.

**paul_oshea** · 20/09/2013, 9:43 AM

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Maybe - if he was happy to take a considerably reduced deal. Dunne's wages were the biggest problem but it would have been a gamble on a guy who hadn't played all last season and wouldn't get much of a game this year. I'd say Lambert probably rolled the dice about right. I'm not convinced Dunne is a top-level player anymore.

I thought he was off the pace in the first half very much so against Sweden. In fact most of the game, the thing is though I think he was badly beaten by Elmander for the Sweden goal.

**Stuttgart88** · 20/09/2013, 10:54 AM

I thought it was a good goal. No more no less.

**DeLorean** · 20/09/2013, 11:06 AM

It was an excellent goal. Brilliant cross, great movement and header from Elmander. Maybe on another day Dunne might have anticipated it earlier and got across Elmander, but it was split second stuff and a year out is bound to have some slight repercussions.

**Junior** · 20/09/2013, 11:10 AM

It was a very well taken goal, it wasnt poor defending that caused it. Of course you would like the CH to get in there ahead of the striker but in most cases the striker has that natural instinct and momentum to gain the 0.5 seconds needed to have that half yard of space.

**paul_oshea** · 20/09/2013, 11:14 AM

Lads unfortunately as I say being at the game makes a big difference. I was right behind the goal. He missed the initial run, it was always going to be too late to catch up with him then. Do you remember breen and raul in 2002 he let him get in front and was never going to catch him then. Dunne let him get in front, as he had done a couple of times before this. It was a good cross and a good header, but the initial run was not tracked.

Thats horsesh1t Junior

The defender should always track goal side, so even if he gets in front he covers goal side, dunne was a yard behind him. Sorry lads but its true. I saw the cross coming(not like a visionary or anything) and then Elmander made a yard, from then he was always going to get it at least on target, good header though.

And while I'm at it, whatever about McClean making a mistake, Forde should never have let it in under him and at his near post.

**DeLorean** · 20/09/2013, 11:20 AM

What did you see at the match that can't be seen here Paul? Like I say, Elmander moved the split second before Dunne, unfortunately it was enough. A striker is always going to make the move first really because he can decide to come near post or go far, the defender has to either take a chance and anticipate where the cross is going, or follow the runner.

**Junior** · 20/09/2013, 11:42 AM

Good post DeLorean. So its exactly as I remember it (I was also at the game - not that it makes a difference as the video shows the incident from every angle). Dunne was goal side of Elmander. Elmander making plenty of movement back and forth. You could argue Dunne should have been touch tight but basically, he's half watching the ball, half waiting for Elmander to make a move. He goes with him but the split second is enough. Possibly a player not just back from injury may have got closer / stopped it but I think it was a good cross and a good finish. End of story.

**Stuttgart88** · 20/09/2013, 12:14 PM

No blame to Dunne. In fact he saw it early and attacked it, but Elmander attacked it early too. Great cross, excellent play by Elmander. It was just a very good goal. They happen.

**SwanVsDalton** · 20/09/2013, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Well conceding just 2 goals in 7 games suggests he is not too far off!!!
OK it's the championship but he part of a very solid defence, I think you would have to say he would get into a good
few Premiership defences?
I have not really seen him play this season but he can't be playing too badly judging by the goals conceded.

Actually I just checked and he has only played 5 of the 7 games, so he has not conceded any!!! 450 mins without conceding!!

The only goals he has conceded have been in the qualifiers.

He's done well so far this season, but he is playing in a very solid defence as part of one the Championship's heavyweights. That doesn't really reflect on what might happen in the Premiership and definitely not at Villa, where a flawed defence is still one of Lambert's biggest problems. Add that in with his wages...well hindsight's great - and I'm a massive Dunne fan - but I still think it was the right call.

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I thought he was off the pace in the first half very much so against Sweden. In fact most of the game, the thing is though I think he was badly beaten by Elmander for the Sweden goal.

I think he looked a little rusty and off-the-pace too, although hard to tell if that's my mind letting a narrative (older player just back from lengthy injury) taking over. Thought the goal was a good goal full stop but the problem for Dunne is the question now will always be posed - would a peak Dunne be a bit tighter? A little quicker?

Having said that it would be a fine swansong to have him retain his current form, stay fit and prove himself vital to the new manager into what must be his last qualification campaign.

**paul_oshea** · 20/09/2013, 1:28 PM

DeLorean. Pause it on 11 seconds. He has timed his run just before the cross comes in, he pulls out a yard so he can come in and attack it. Dunne misses the run, on 11 seconds you can see he is at least a yard off. Then he comes over and in again, and Dunne goes forward initially to make up the yard and then tries to get across him. Its pretty clear there bar around the 10th second where it goes out to the wing, but a lot clearer behind the goal obviously

Jees if Forde had even stayed up right it would have hit his noggin.

Edit: look at the replay around 37 seconds or so. He pulls out off Dunne, so he can come in to attack as he sees how far forward lustig has got so he pulls out and away from Dunne. Dunne wasn't quick enough to react, and maybe slightly off the pace too to make it up.

**geysir** · 20/09/2013, 3:40 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

DeLorean. Pause it on 11 seconds. He has timed his run just before the cross comes in, he pulls out a yard so he can come in and attack it. Dunne misses the run, on 11 seconds you can see he is at least a yard off. Then he comes over and in again, and Dunne goes forward initially to make up the yard and then tries to get across him. Its pretty clear there bar around the 10th second where it goes out to the wing, but a lot clearer behind the goal obviously

Jees if Forde had even stayed up right it would have hit his noggin.

Edit: look at the replay around 37 seconds or so. He pulls out off Dunne, so he can come in to attack as he sees how far forward lustig has got so he pulls out and away from Dunne. Dunne wasn't quick enough to react, and maybe slightly off the pace too to make it up.

Why do you focus so much energy criticising and finding/inventing fault (1/24th second faults) with players?

**paul_oshea** · 20/09/2013, 3:47 PM

I don't I just have an extremely analytical mind, so I wouldn't need to put as much energy into it as say, someone like you. :P

Seriously though but I'm sure Trap, and from the reaction that Dunne had himself after the goal that he knew he got caught short.

If you dont find, analyse and identify these problems you don't get better and you don't eradicate the mistakes. For any job really.

**BonnieShels** · 20/09/2013, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Seriously though but I'm sure Trap, and from the reaction that Dunne had himself after the goal that he knew he got caught short.

Well Elmander certainly pi$$ed past him.

**geysir** · 20/09/2013, 4:51 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I don't I just have an extremely analytical mind, so I wouldn't need to put as much energy into it as say, someone like you. :P

Seriously though but I'm sure Trap, and from the reaction that Dunne had himself after the goal that he knew he got caught short.

If you dont find, analyse and identify these problems you don't get better and you don't eradicate the mistakes. For any job really.

Quite frankly that's horse

your mind is not that analytical.
You're arguing millimetres when there were some glaring errors made in those games. Just because some supposed error leads to a goal, doesn't make it a bigger error than one which did not prove costly. The first real chance for Sweden was aided by a glaring defensive error in covering, the worst of the game, but the chance was not converted. Therefore not much focus is made on that.
My first impression was that Dunne had done his best, had got close and was beaten, he was naturally disappointed/crestfallen, but you assume to read his mind.

He's the experienced player who knows what happened and what he can do better. Are you going to tell him how to defend? to eradicate what you interpret as a mistake? I doubt that, so I just think that you enjoy picking out perceived faults with players, criticising them, with absolutely no opportunity to be constructive.
If it's a team discussion, then you can have an opinion that Dunne has lost a bit of sharpness, point out where he has lost his sharpness and make a claim for another CH to take his place.