Ciaran Clark D Stoke City b.1989

**Adrock** · 27/10/2010, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Adrock, your exclusive political agenda here has run its course. You have no interest in the Ireland football team apart from opinions on who is Irish enough to represent Ireland.
Either you get involved in the football related discussions or just go elsewhere to try and infiltrate another website discussion board with your exclusive political agenda.

If I wanted to do politics I'd be wading in to the Shane Duffy Northern ireland issue which is almost entirely political. I have posted on several seperate topics, fewr than half being eligibility related but in case you hadnt noticed an awful lot of posts in the interim between international matches tend to be dominated by the 'this players name sounds a bit Irish lets go for him/ I've got an extra special secret source says this England player's definitely going to declare for us' rubbish which I find tiresome and ridiculous and I cant believe I'm the only one. When I question this peculiarly twisted method of player recruitemnt I always get a barrage of responses which I in turn respond to as this is the point of a forum. Sometimes they are even quite intelligent and well expressed .
As adults we should be able to think about why we hold a certain opinion instead of petulantly slinging abuse at someone beacuse they think differently to you.

**Closed Account 2** · 27/10/2010, 4:15 PM

Originally Posted by elroy

Bulgaria, they havent qualified for the last three WC's and have only ever made the Euros twice. Hardly shining lights to example.

Actually even Bulgaria have had non-Bulgarian born players playing for them. There was a guy who was born in Serbia, lived his whole life there until he transferred to a Sofia club (either Levksi or CSKA) around 2000-2001, and then he got Bulgarian citizenship and played for them, I think he was called Pedrag Pazin or Paznin or something.

I don't think there can be many UEFA nations who havent fielded a foreign-born player in their International side, maybe Denmark if you say Jesper Gronkjaer's Greenland isnt a valid country as it's not UEFA, maybe it's none.

**Adrock** · 27/10/2010, 5:18 PM

Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

So the ex-Yugoslavia is a "seperate" issue, but you think it's valid to include them as a comparison anyway. The Croatian arguement doesnt hold water anyway, Simunic born in Canberra, Australia; Ivan Rakitic born in Switzerland, played U21s for Swiss; Corluka born in Derventa RS Bosnia; Bartulovic and Lovren both born in Zenica Bosnia; Klasnic and Ilicevic born in Germany; Eduardo born in Rio; Jelavic born in Capljina Bosnia; Mladen Petric born in Brcko Bosnia.

Slovenia's Josip Ilicic was born in Prijedor, RS Bosnia, (Bosnia doesnt even share a border with Slovenia) same with Dedic, born in in Bihac.

For Serbia even ignoring the likes of Subotic, Koroman, Krstajic and Milosevic (all born in Bosnia) and Ergic and Ljuboja (both born in Croatia), there is
as I mentioned already Kuzmanovic (born in Switzerland played for their U21s).

As for ex-USSR, well Semak (Russian captain) was born in USSR, his parents still live there and he has stated that he is Ukrainian and only Russian by late aquisition of citizenship (http://www.eurosport.ru/football/story_sto2064648.shtml). As I said Milevskiy was born in Minsk and played for Belarus's underage teams until he transferred to Boryspil aged 15. Marko Devic is a Serbian who had nothing to do with Ukraine until he left Radnicki and joined Lutsk, then he got Ukraine citizenship and now has played 6 times for them. Kislyak, the Belarussian who scored for them against France in September was born in Kamyanets, Ukraine, Rudzik was born in St. Petersburg, Russia. Pereplotkins, the Latvian on loan at Derby last year, was born in Ukraine as was Marian Pahars.

The Croats and Serbs born in Yugoslav Bosnia I could write you a dissatation on Balkan history as to why this is the case, similar to the Northern ireland issue except that the split happened in their lifetimes - i believe there was a civil war on the issue. Other players you mentioned qualified through residence or through parentage and chose to play for the country they do ahead of other options because that is what they believed there nationality to be. Kuzmanovic and Rakitic were offered the chance to represnt Switzerland at full level but chose to play for Serbia and Croatia respectively beacause that is what they considered themselves to be. I dont have a major beef with mcgeady and mccarthy in that they are clearly good enough for Scotland but chose to play for Ireland for whatever reason despite their tenuous link (for the record I dont think they should be playing for us but it is a lesser evil than being someone's second choice) When did anyone wanted by England to be capped by them ever said 'no I'm irish , that's me its Ireland or nothing' . Thats what makes me a tad cynical on the issue. I understand Clark's reasons for switching but you shouldnt really be playing for Ireland because you're nagged in to it and don't think you're going to make the England squad. The fact that this viewpoint seems to be unpopular puzzles and deeply saddens me to be honest

**elroy** · 27/10/2010, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by Adrock

'this players name sounds a bit Irish lets go for him/ I've got an extra special secret source says this England player's definitely going to declare for us' rubbish which I find tiresome and ridiculous and I cant believe I'm the only one.

To be honest I dont think its like that at all. For example, I started this thread, I read a few youth team reports about Clark elsewhere and obviously considering his first name I wondered if he were Irish. It wasnt until I researched a little further that I realised he was 2G Irish. I genuinely think that most of the names thrown out on this website arise from similar circumstances. Its not at all purely seeking out foreign born players eligible for us.

In any case, should we not search out players fully eligible for us, even if they werent born in this country. No in my opinion. From past experience, for every Plastic Paddy, there have been 10 genuine 2G players who have shown great dedication to the cause. The ironic thing is that there are some 2G players that I can think of that have shown a greater dedication and affinity to the Irish team than Irish born players. The same thing can actually be also said of some of our fans.

**Crosby87** · 27/10/2010, 11:39 PM

If the rule is there, why not take advantage of it? Honestly. What the hell is the argument against that. Its called being competitive.

And I agree with you about the fan thing Elroy. I know there are some people who call themselves "fans" in Ireland who would not use half their freaking vacation days like I do to be in a pub at 12 noon on a Tuesday or Friday.... Some of us 2G folk love our heritage and believe it or not know more about "Being Irish" than just puking on St Pattys and listening to the Drop Kick Murphys at the Gym.

**Charlie Darwin** · 27/10/2010, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by Crosby87

to be in a pub at 12 noon on a Tuesday or Friday

Sure I'm there Ireland game or no Ireland game...

**seanfhear** · 28/10/2010, 8:44 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Sure I'm there Ireland game or no Ireland game...

In that case you'd be Irish even if you were'nt if you know what I mean !

**Gnobe** · 28/10/2010, 12:31 PM

I think some people don't understand the concept of dual nationality sometimes on here.

I remember watching Adrian Chiles (itv presenter) proudly boast his Croatian background (which he's fiercely proud of) on many occasions. Anyone remember him in the euro championships wearing Croatian gear in the stadium during a game, sitting singing with the Croatian fans? Even on the trains? Now since he's only half and half I would assume he supports England just as much and if asked he would support first? I guess he would say England since that's the country he's lived in all his life.

Now that would mean if he were a footballer Croatia would probably be his second choice, but who would be to dare say to him that he's not passionate to play for Croatia? I bet he would play his heart out for them judging from what I saw in the euro championships back in 08. He was a mad man celebrating with them!

So I would disagree entirely with Adrock - just because somebody slightly favours England over Ireland doesn't mean they can't be passionate about being Irish. It's ballocks. Seriously.

**SwanVsDalton** · 28/10/2010, 1:43 PM

Originally Posted by Adrock

Thats what makes me a tad cynical on the issue. I understand Clark's reasons for switching but you shouldnt really be playing for Ireland because you're nagged in to it and don't think you're going to make the England squad. The fact that this viewpoint seems to be unpopular puzzles and deeply saddens me to be honest

As has been pointed out to you several times, Clark didn't have to be 'nagged' into it because he thought he wasn't going to make the England squad. He declared at ayoung age before he's even been invited to join a single Irish squad.

**Adrock** · 28/10/2010, 5:05 PM

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

As has been pointed out to you several times, Clark didn't have to be 'nagged' into it because he thought he wasn't going to make the England squad. He declared at ayoung age before he's even been invited to join a single Irish squad.

In the words of Richard Dunne ' I had a word with Clarky so I'm to blame' and was subsequently approached by the FAI In the words of Clark in his defection statement 'I captained England youth team but i didn't see that going anywhere'
Infer what you will from these comments but it doesnt exactly sound like Clark had a sudden epiphany about how he was really irish all this time , with shamrocks dancing before his eyes filling him with a burning desire to play for his parents land and begging the FAI to fulil his hearfelt wishes. People will interpret his motives according to what it suits them to believe but looking at it rationally and objectively it doesnt look quite that way. To be fair Clark isnt really pretending his is really an Irishman same as Andy Townsend readily admitted he is not actually Irish. its an easier route in to international football and you cant blame him for taking it but there is no dignity or honor on the part of our footballing association is hunting after these kind players.
For the record couldnt very well be invited in to a squad before declaring as his numerous appearances for this homeland mean that he needs to obtain special authorisation to transfer his allegiances.

**SwanVsDalton** · 28/10/2010, 5:49 PM

Originally Posted by Adrock

In the words of Richard Dunne ' I had a word with Clarky so I'm to blame' and was subsequently approached by the FAI In the words of Clark in his defection statement 'I captained England youth team but i didn't see that going anywhere'
Infer what you will from these comments but it doesnt exactly sound like Clark had a sudden epiphany about how he was really irish all this time , with shamrocks dancing before his eyes filling him with a burning desire to play for his parents land and begging the FAI to fulil his hearfelt wishes. People will interpret his motives according to what it suits them to believe but looking at it rationally and objectively it doesnt look quite that way. To be fair Clark isnt really pretending his is really an Irishman same as Andy Townsend readily admitted he is not actually Irish. its an easier route in to international football and you cant blame him for taking it but there is no dignity or honor on the part of our footballing association is hunting after these kind players.
For the record couldnt very well be invited in to a squad before declaring as his numerous appearances for this homeland mean that he needs to obtain special authorisation to transfer his allegiances.

Again it's been pointed out repeatedly that your reading of the situation is extremely selective (and not 'rational or objective' at all) since it completely ignores the fact that a young player has made a lifetime commitment to our national side. It can't be explained to you any simpler than:

Clark had a shot with England.
He choose to take up his options with Ireland early doors, a brave move given his prospects and upbringing.
This is good for a young Irish footballer, the national squad and the fans.

Would you be less begrudging if he declared in a decade when his possible career with England played out as bust? Or if he just didn't bother declaring at all?

Clark's courage to declare at this point is ample enough evidence of his commitment and, for me, his Irishness.

Anyway of course he's Irish, his name's spelt correctly, nuff said...

**SkStu** · 28/10/2010, 7:11 PM

Originally Posted by Adrock

Infer what you will from these comments but it doesnt exactly sound like Clark had a sudden epiphany about how he was really irish all this time , with shamrocks dancing before his eyes filling him with a burning desire to play for his parents land and begging the FAI to fulil his hearfelt wishes. .

is that necessary though? If you feel it is then a) some of our own Irish born players must be a great disappointment to you, b) it just doesnt happen like that anymore. International football is not attractive to most, and c) i find such proclomations very contrived.

**elroy** · 29/10/2010, 10:14 AM

John Aldridge was on the panel last night. If was asked something along the lines of would he have liked to have played for England.

He basically said that he was English born so yes if England called he wouldve played for them, but as it happened Ireland came calling. he was very proud of his Irish heritage and was honoured to represent us. Once he did, he never looked back or regreted it.

I would imagine alot of English born lads that declare for us are of the same mindset as above. Is there anything wrong with it?? Well you make your own mind up, I certainly dont.

Just out of interest Adrock, what would be your opinion of a lad born in Ireland but with both parents and grandparents born outside Ireland, so therefore he has not Irish ancestry whatsoever.

**co. down green** · 29/10/2010, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by elroy

John Aldridge was on the panel last night. If was asked something along the lines of would he have liked to have played for England.

He basically said that he was English born so yes if England called he wouldve played for them, but as it happened Ireland came calling. he was very proud of his Irish heritage and was honoured to represent us. Once he did, he never looked back or regreted it.

I would imagine alot of English born lads that declare for us are of the same mindset as above. Is there anything wrong with it?? Well you make your own mind up, I certainly dont.

very well explained

**Adrock** · 29/10/2010, 1:21 PM

Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

Actually even Bulgaria have had non-Bulgarian born players playing for them. There was a guy who was born in Serbia, lived his whole life there until he transferred to a Sofia club (either Levksi or CSKA) around 2000-2001, and then he got Bulgarian citizenship and played for them, I think he was called Pedrag Pazin or Paznin or something.

I don't think there can be many UEFA nations who havent fielded a foreign-born player in their International side, maybe Denmark if you say Jesper Gronkjaer's Greenland isnt a valid country as it's not UEFA, maybe it's none.

I have to admire your researching skills. Had you considered employment with the FAI in their hereditary analysis department in London? (they their own floor in the Canary Wharf now I hear) You get good commission - €500 for recruiting a 2G, €1000 for a granny ruler plus an extra €200 for every England cap they've got.

**Adrock** · 29/10/2010, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by elroy

I would imagine alot of English born lads that declare for us are of the same mindset as above. Is there anything wrong with it?? Well you make your own mind up, I certainly dont.

Just out of interest Adrock, what would be your opinion of a lad born in Ireland but with both parents and grandparents born outside Ireland, so therefore he has not Irish ancestry whatsoever.

Of course not because Ireland would be their home if you look at most western European countries their national teams comprise of a lot of players whose parents were immigrants or moved there themselves as kids. Perhaps in the future this could be the case with Ireland too and I'd be just as happy if a player with nigerian parents who had grown up here represented us as one with irish parents, why shouldn't they after all. I can even understand an individual whose parents are Irish may still grow up supporting our national team and even perceiving themselves as Irish if that was the way they were brought up. If this was the case then fair enough but you'd think you'd want to play from ireland from the start instead of seeing how far you could get with England or Scotland or whoever. The ROI offers a somewhat easier route in to international football so there's no reason you'd want to keep playing for England unless this was the country you really wanted to represent.
I'm afraid I have no respect for that particular scouser's opinions so I didnt bother to read that part of the post , apologies

**The Fly** · 29/10/2010, 3:08 PM

http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetai...200963,00.html

Ciaran Clark has agreed a new deal at Aston Villa, committing his future to the club until the summer of 2014.

The former England Under-18, U-19 and U-20 captain, who recently declared for the Republic of Ireland, has established himself in the Villa first team squad and is excited about the future for a club he joined as a 12-year-old schoolboy.

"I'm delighted to sign a new deal and commit my future to the club," Clark said.

"I feel I'm at a football club that is progressing and provides an environment in which the young players coming through all want to excel.

"The likes of Marc Albrighton, Barry Bannan, Nathan Delfouneso, Eric Lichaj, we've all come through together and this underlines the quality of the youth structure at the club.

"It's a great feeling for me to be signing a new deal because it's what I've worked for since I first came here - to be a part of the team and to contribute what I can to a great football club."

Clark started at the heart of defence in the opening game of the season, a 3-0 victory over West Ham, and he has featured in both Carling Cup victories to date under new manager Gerard Houllier, who had no hesitation in bringing on the 21-year-old early in the Premier League game against Chelsea when Richard Dunne came off injured.

"I know that the gaffer wants to see me continuing to improve and I'm looking forward to working hard over the next few years," Clark added.

"I feel at home at the club and it would be fantastic to be a part of the success which all the lads here are striving for."

**The Fly** · 31/10/2010, 10:34 AM

Clark starts for Villa today in the derby against Birmingham City. Kick off - 12:00pm.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...em/9128210.stm

Dunne and Collins are also listed as starters for Villa, which means Houllier is either using a 5-4-1 formation, or *one of them is starting in midfield. Given this a derby, with Villa as the home side, I'll go with the latter.

* Many posters on 'VillaTalk', the main Villa supporters forum, are stating that Clark is playing in midfield.

**The Fly** · 31/10/2010, 11:02 AM

Its just been confirmed on BBC Radio 5-live that Clark is indeed starting in midfield.

This will be a big test for him, and shows the obvious regard he is held in by Houllier.

**paul_oshea** · 31/10/2010, 12:35 PM

sidwell taken off and clark left on...

interestingly fahey had 4 or so shots on goal in the first half, and he started.

Barry Bannan sounds like an Irish name, anyone know anything about him(apart from being born in scotland i mean)?