Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Maybe he just needed the rest after the 2 games? Lescott hadn't much on last week!
A bit off topic maybe but there have been a couple of penalty shouts recently that reminded me of my converstaion with CD here, regarding this challenge by Clark. Even though we both agreed it was a perfectly good tackle, I thought he was running a risk in that some referees would go down the 'excessive force' route.No nonsense from Clark:
Did anybody see Callum McManaman's 'dive' against Southampton at the weekend? His own manager, Tony Pulis, came out after the game and said, having seen it again, the referee got it spot on and he'll have a word with McManaman about it, that he doesn't want his players diving. The MOTD lads agreed it was a great spot from the referee. I'm not convinced as to how good a 'spot' it was as the referee didn't book McManaman. Maybe he thought the defender got something on the ball and McManaman fell over him. Anyway, I thought it was a stone wall penalty. The defender lunged in, going to ground and McManaman knocked the ball past him. He then basically hurls the defender's tackle so there was no contact but surely his route to the ball had been illegally impeded?
It's a bit like Fabio Grosso going over Lucas Neil in the 2006 WC, the Aussies went nuts but I thought it was a fair shout. In McManaman's case, if he didn't hurl the challenge he could have been seriously hurt and in Grosso's case he would have lost possession and not been awarded a penalty, that I think he was entitled to. Some dives are justified, God knows you'll never get rewarded for trying to stay on your feet.
Next up... and probably more relevant to Clark's above, poor Luke Shaw last night. I thought it was a perfectly good tackle with disasterous consequences. You've got United fans all over social media wanting Moreno hung up somewhere but had Shaw jumped to his feet and got on with the game, like Schlupp above, I don't think anybody would have mentioned another thing about it. There was probably a case for excessive force, but Shaw was after cutting through the middle of the PSV defence and it was a necessary lunge to prevent him getting through on goal. Similarly with Shawcross on Ramsey that time, I can't remember exactly if the tackle was fair or not on that occasion but I definitely didn't think it was a red card offence, but the referee in that case got soaked up by the emotion of the whole thing maybe.
I wonder what the reaction would have been like towards Clark if Schlupp suffered a similar injury after the tackle above?
Last edited by DeLorean; 16/09/2015 at 2:26 PM.
If the same situation happens out in the middle of the pitch but McManaman hurdles the player, obviously it's not free kick. But I've seen referees warn the sliding player about reckless play. But I always argue that I've every right to slide and try to block the ball, if I don't make contact with the player then no harm, no foul. Same scenario here. McManaman could and should have stayed on his feet. If he trys to jump over the player and a 'dangling' leg catches him, then penalty. That's good play by the forward. But if he does what McManaman does there and dives head first over a challenge, then no penalty and it's the forwards fault. If Pulis is having a word with him, then it should be giving out to him for not winning the penalty. I'm not advocating diving but if the defender is stupid enough to go to ground in the box without making contact with the football then a professional footballer should be able to take advantage.
I haven't seen the incident but if a defender goes to ground, gets none of the ball and stops the attacker from getting to the ball or retaining the ball, I think the attacker has every right to go down and claim a foul. Remember, there is no mention of contact in the rule book. Carelessness in making a tackle or excessive force in a tackle are what constitutes a foul (I think). Sliding in and missing can constitute carelessness especially when a failed attempt at a tackle has a very detrimental effect on the forward.
Yes that did cross my mind, but saw no mention of it in the press.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/spor...-brom-10068272
However there was one incident in I think the last match v Georgia where it seemed to me he made a bad defensive decision, although it came to nothing in the end.Had to feel sorry for Ciaran Clark, though. What did he do wrong to lose his place? Nothing in my eyes, but then again I’m not on the training field every day.
That's exactly how I would see it. I think JD makes a good point about the defender having the right to slide in anticipation of blocking the ball, but if the attacker outsmarts him i.e. cuts back or knocks it past him or whatever, I think the defender should be penalised if his presence on the ground obstructs the attackers route to the ball. I'd disagree regarding contact being necessary and if it happens on the half way line the same criteria should be applied.
This is the McManaman incident (although it seems to be zoomed or something and missing a bit of the screen). It's actually hard to believe there's no contact from some angles, the final replay is the clearest.
Last edited by DeLorean; 17/09/2015 at 1:24 PM.
Hopefully he plays against Germany, i think his distribution is far superior to Wilson, just needs a run to cement his place.
Agreed also, but there is a fine line. Rightly or wrongly, players have to help the referee make the decision. If you stay on your feet, he'll rarely give it, and almost never in the box. But if you go down too easy, you're giving the referee an excuse not to give it. It's not something I coach to kids but when I'm playing with lads in there late teens/early twenties, especially forwards, I'd take them aside and try to explain it to them. Generally the better players don't need to be told.
Clark not even in the Villa squad today. Is he injured? Not ideal before Thursday with Coleman still doubtful. Since he's been dropped for the Lescott/Richards show, Villa have lost three out of three and conceded seven. Hopefully big Jon will add to their woes today.
He was injured.http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/spor...clark-10189669
Ciaran Clark is targeting a return to fitness for Aston Villa's trip to Chelsea in a fortnight's time.
Clark missed the 1-0 Premier League defeat to Stoke at Villa Park with a thigh strain.
Villa boss Tim Sherwood hopes the two-week international break will give the Irish defender time to recover.
Injury free and available for Villa today, hopefully he gets some game time.
Not even on the bench.
Villa have not got a point since they dropped Clark, mind you they have only got 4 points 3 v Bournemouth and 1 v Sunderland.
I doubt Clark is too happy about being dropped, maybe that is why he was not even on the bench, perhaps he has fallen out with Villa?
This is the 6th straight defeat fro Villa and he can't even get on the bench.
Sherwood getting sacked would be best for him I think.
Sherwood will be gone in a couple of weeks. Clark should be back in before that because Villa's defenders are rubbish. Terrible team though - I suspect he'll be playing in the Championship for them soon.
I find it hard to accept he wouldn't have made the bench if available. Surely they thought he'd make it but just missed out. It's kind of strange that they fought off the West Brom interest in the summer but have replaced with a West Brom player in Lescott. Possibly just as well he didn't go to West Brom in one way though as it will probably be easier to get into the Villa side with the likes of James Chester struggling to see game time at The Hawthorns. He could have been an ideal partner for Jonny Evans all the same, who has said in the past that he's much more comfortable as a right sided centre back. Not sure which side he's playing on at the moment? Came across this actually, the last line looks pretty funny in hindsight!
Clark v Lescott
Last edited by DeLorean; 25/10/2015 at 7:16 AM.
Sherwood gone. No surprise really. Will be interesting to see who takes over that bag of mess.
Big Sam should have held out for that job!
I would suggest that the next Villa manager plays Clark more than Sherwood did. (And I ain't no rocket scientist)
Ha ha I posted that at 25/10/2015, 12:45 AM
He was sacked about 7 hours ago less than 12 hours after I posted!
Last edited by tricky_colour; 25/10/2015 at 6:32 PM.
When you look at those stats is it mad they start Lescott a head of Clark, indeed Clark has the best stats at villa 7.51, Lescott is only 6.61 nearly a full point behind.
Indeed that would make him the 14th best player in the Premiership Lescott is 220th!!
I said he must have falling out, indeed he should have fallen out as there is no way Lescott should be ahead of him, he aught to be furious!!
My next prediction is that Clark will start the next match, with Lescott probbaly dropped.
Posting Permissions
Quote
Bookmarks