Wonder if he'll get booed at The Valley...

Sheridan · 29/04/2004, 2:16 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...st/3669559.stm

"Nottingham Forest striker Marlon King has accepted Jamaica's offer of a route into international football.
The 24-year-old was born in London but qualifies to play for Jamaica through his parents.

He was provisionally included in the Reggae Boyz squad for a pre-World Cup qualifying friendly against Venezuela.

King also qualifies to play for the Republic of Ireland through his grandmother, but has chosen Jamaica and is set to win his first cap."

I know this might sound like a thoroughly outlandish idea, but perhaps in the future we could focus on developing our own players instead of cobbling together a team composed of those burped up (sans technical ability) by the English "coaching" system, and the unwanted detritus of the English-speaking world? No? Oh well, it was just a thought.

**NeilMcD** · 29/04/2004, 2:25 PM

I think if i was picking an irish first team it would have the following players in it

Given, Irish by birth
Carr Irish by Birth
Cunningham Irish by birth
Dunne Irish by Birth Or O Brien who is 2nd generation I think
O Shea Irish by Birth

Reid Irish By Birth
Keane Irish by Birth
Miller Irish By Birth
Duff Irish by Birth

Keane Irish by Birth
Morrison Qualifies through grandmother i think but not sure

Plus the following are all Irish born

Finnan
Harte
Doherty
Kinsella
Mc Phail
Maybury
Healy
Kavanagh
Alan Lee

so i dont think we are relying on players from other countries and are best players are born in Ireland.

Sheridan · 29/04/2004, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

so i dont think we are relying on players from other countries

Yes we are. Exclusively.

and are best players are born in Ireland.

Sod all to do with it, IMHO.

**NeilMcD** · 29/04/2004, 2:32 PM

Sorry are you wishing that are players stay and play in the Eircom league rather than playing in Other leagues mainly Scotland and Ireland then is that the basis of your argument if so fair enough, not that i would agree with it. If its not and its to do with birth well then you are factually wrong as i have pointed out in my previous e mail.

**Greenbod** · 29/04/2004, 2:32 PM

Originally Posted by Sheridan

Yes we are. Exclusively.

Jaysus! now, not only do you have to be born here but you have to live and work here in order to represent your country!!

**NeilMcD** · 29/04/2004, 2:40 PM

ok but he was a bit like David O Leary and Paul Mc Grath in that he grew up his whole life in Rush in Dublin.

**NeilMcD** · 29/04/2004, 2:43 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

McPhail? Think you'll find that Westminister is in London.

Since first bursting onto the international stage at underage level, Stephen McPhail has been likened to a young Liam Brady. Born in Queens, New York, McPhail moved to Ireland with his Irish parents as a child and after playing schoolboy football in Dublin, he joined Leeds United. When David O'Leary initially took over, McPhail was one of the players given an opportunity in the first team, but an Achilles injury kept him out for most of the 2000/01 season, though he did earn a place in Ireland's US Cup squad. The young midfielder didn't feature for Leeds in 2002, and under the management of Terry Venables, he failed to hold down a regular place in the side. Loan spells with Millwall and Nottingham Forest have had differing results though he has regained a regular place in the Ireland squad.

**NeilMcD** · 29/04/2004, 2:56 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

Ah, so he's LIKE a fellow born in Ireland...

This thread is getting stupid. If a fellow holds an Irish passport and is an Irish citizen he is Irish by law, and just as much an Irish citizen as you or Dodge who may have been born here. Noone has the right to question another person's 'Irishness'. McAteer is entitled to play for Ireland. You may feel he is a mercenary and you are entitled to that opinion, but you cannot suggest that he is somehow less of an Irishman because he acquired his citizenship and wasn't born here. One is either Irish or is not, and he is.

Sorry i think you have misinterepreted my views, here, this thread has nothign to do with the Mc Ateer thread that is going on. I have no problems with Mc Ateer playing for Ireland. I only said that what Dodge said was not racist which it wasnt, and which Eanna has not admitted was not racist.

Secondly in relation to this thread the original post was made by Sheridan who said that we rely on the English coaching system etc or something along those lines. I was just pointing out that in fact most of our players who start are actually born here. At no point have i said that anybody is less irish for been born anybody else. I was just making the poing that we dont have to rely on the 2nd generation of irish players.

Thirdly , why did you quoute the Liam Brady remark which came from the Fai website. I copied that out in order to show you that you were in fact wrong for saying he was born in Westminister when it was New York. I was wrong as i thought he was Dublin born but in fact he just lived here since a child I think four or five.

Fourthly I think you have issues as you seem to be jumping on my posts non stop without backing them up with any sort of facts. this thread is about players that are coached in ireland etc, I have not made comments against english born players at any stage on this. Just caused I defended Dodge on the "racist" term does nt mean i agree with his posts on Mc Ateer.

**NeilMcD** · 29/04/2004, 2:58 PM

Sorry eanna did say that it was not racist, that was a typo in the last post sorry

**Bowsy** · 29/04/2004, 3:04 PM

Amazing that people on this forum expect us to be a world power as well as using only players born and raised in Ireland by 100% irish parents who have never plied their trade outside EL.

Ridiculous. Yes we have a few mercenaries but as has been discussed at length so do most countries. We played against one yesterday in the shape of Olisadebe. Look the size of our population, look at our history of emigration. All our finest players are Irish Born and most of our second generation players exclusively want to play for Ireland(Breen, Kilbane, etc). that's good enough for me.

Sheridan · 29/04/2004, 3:08 PM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Secondly in relation to this thread the original post was made by Sheridan who said that we rely on the English coaching system etc or something along those lines.

I think I've caused the problem here by not making myself clear. What I mean is, we even rely on the English coaching system to develop Irish-born players, with the result that our national team is of very little relevance to Irish football. The selection of foreign-born players is something I'm not in favour of, but it has nothing to do with "Irishness." I have no hang-ups in that regard, indeed most manifestations of "Irishness" or any form of nationalism are things I despise. It's purely a footballing issue.

It's the short-termism that p*sses me off. The strength of our national team at any given point is arbitrarily determined by the numbers of Irish-born players who happen to break into first team football in England, and the number of foreign-born players who are recruited to the "cause." Its achievements serve only to paper over the inadequacies of Irish football. Until a long-term strategy to develop an indigenous football culture is put in place, this state of affairs will persist.

**Dodge** · 29/04/2004, 3:36 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

Tut tut. You still ignorant of website etiquette? Always quote source or link.

Moi? Issues? Your paranoia is amusing. For an example of 'jumping on' try counting how many posts you put up pleading for an apology from Eanna for expressing a view about Dodge?

A couple of times but so what Conor? whats this hang up about people posting on public forums thats creeped in here recently?

**NeilMcD** · 29/04/2004, 3:40 PM

Sorry conor look at the subject box i did state from the FAI website. I think you are wrong again.

you were wrong about where he was from you said westminister

you were wrong about my views on irish players and there irishness etc.

and in relation to EANNa i think if you make a strong alegation that someons has made racist comments and they are found out to be not racist i think you are obligated to apoligise as an allegation of racism whether that be comments or the person itself is such a strong term to use that an apolgy should be mandatory otherwise it is slander.

Now conor you are embarassing yourself here with your factual mistakes. YOu butted in on this website with a comment that the sarcasm was reeking out of it and it turned out that the sarcastic comment

" Mc Phail I think you will find westminister is in London"

it turned out that he was in fact born in New york. So where you were trying to be sarcy and smart and you did not have the facts yourself.

**NeilMcD** · 29/04/2004, 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by Sheridan

I think I've caused the problem here by not making myself clear. What I mean is, we even rely on the English coaching system to develop Irish-born players, with the result that our national team is of very little relevance to Irish football. The selection of foreign-born players is something I'm not in favour of, but it has nothing to do with "Irishness." I have no hang-ups in that regard, indeed most manifestations of "Irishness" or any form of nationalism are things I despise. It's purely a footballing issue.

It's the short-termism that p*sses me off. The strength of our national team at any given point is arbitrarily determined by the numbers of Irish-born players who happen to break into first team football in England, and the number of foreign-born players who are recruited to the "cause." Its achievements serve only to paper over the inadequacies of Irish football. Until a long-term strategy to develop an indigenous football culture is put in place, this state of affairs will persist.

Sheridan fair play to you, although i dont think your views are realisitc and sustainable but thats only my opinion and I woudl point to Norway and others for maybe a blueprint of what you have in mind etc. Bugt you have put your points across very well except of the initial mis-understanding when i though you were saying we relied on english based players and I was only trying to state that we did not . But sorry you have much more ambitious plans which are fair enough and I think you have some healthy points to make and should be listened to.

**NeilMcD** · 29/04/2004, 4:01 PM

I have said i was incorrect about his birth place i thought i was dubiln originally but i think the difference between me and you is that when i am wrong i admit it. If i see someone makes a decent poing i let it be known to. Hoever you like to nit pic on threads and come and make sarcy posts like the one you made to me on this thread which added nothing to the thread. When you have be proved that you are wrong you still dont admit you are wrong. I would rather you did not reply to any of my posts and I will do likewise as you seem to cherish petty arguments. I prefer to concentrate on Irish football and listen to intelligent debate like the likes of Eanna, Dodge Sheridan and many others here like to participate in.

**NeilMcD** · 29/04/2004, 4:18 PM

Maybe I will do that but sorry if I prefer to compliment people and recognise the fact that other people here who disagree with me but make valid points> I dont mind admitting when I am wrong as it would be boring to be right all of the time. However i think its a sad that when u are wrong and have found out to be , to simply ignore that and move on to the next little bit of comments you can poke fun at with petty little remarks.

**NeilMcD** · 29/04/2004, 4:28 PM

I am just after noticing your location, its explains an awful lot about your attitude and posts.

Anyway does anybody have any constructive intelligent views on Sheridans interesting post on the coaching of Irish players.

**NeilMcD** · 29/04/2004, 4:35 PM

No no, did i say anything against kerry etc, I just said it explaind a lot about your attitude thats all hardly racism. If you want to take that as a negative aspect that is up to you but it was not meant that way.

**Plastic Paddy** · 29/04/2004, 4:37 PM

Lads, if you're going to carry this on, let me know so I can go and flog tickets to the other members hereabouts. If there's to be cyber-blood spilled, I want to at least make some money out of it...

PP

**NeilMcD** · 29/04/2004, 4:43 PM

All i said was that it explained an awful lot, its up to you to take it whatever way you like it, but do not put words in my mouth. YOu have an awful habit if deciding what I think and what are my views. you said i was not racist. I could be memeber of Klu Klux Klan but you dont know so do not ever decide what are my views again. YOu also lumped me in with the views on Dodge with regards to Mc Ateer despite the fact i had never made one post that was against Mc Ateer or his nationality.

finally are you just on this site to rise people and start arguments or do you like debating the future of irish football. Please let me know. I am not going to judge how much of an irish fan you are or how many games you go to etc but it seems your motives to be on the site are to wind people up. ITs a bit petty and childish and I think difference of opinion and intelligent debate should be encouraged here not bouts with people etc etc.