No where near good enough for international footballOriginally Posted by Fixer82
I think Daryl Murphy can feel slightly aggrieved having not got a look-in since joining Celtic where he's done well
Folding my way into the big money!!!
No where near good enough for international football
This is a qualifying game! It's the new FIFA rule to accommodate the clubs (who want their players back quicker after qualifying games). I think the Macedonia game in March will be our only Saturday game. Expect to see the same for the World Cup qualifying game (I think that is what you were trying to say).Why are they playing games on Friday and not Saturday?I hope they don't do that for Cup Q.
"There's man all over for you, blaming on his boots the fault of his feet" - Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot
Better than Sheridan imho and hasn't gotten much of a chance playing for Ireland
Folding my way into the big money!!!
Murphy mightn't be good enough for International football but I'd agree that he is better than Sheridan.
"We lost because we didn't win"- Ronaldo
I doubt Coleman is going to make a competitive squad anytime soon. He isn't first choice at his club and is, quite frankly, defensively suspect. He excels when he pushes forward but when has Trapattoni encouraged his full backs to get forward? A similar argument could be said for Stephen Ward's continued absence from the squad.
Trapattoni quickly decides a position for new players in his system and sticks to that. It's only JOSH and Keogh that have been deployed in more than one position (JOSH has played centre half and full while Keogh has been used up front as a sub in recent games when previously he was always deployed in a wide midfiled role). Trapattoni has already decided that McCarthy is a wide midfielder so who does he drop to include him? Possibly Treacy but I think he is a player on the up and currently offers more than McCarthy in a wide position.
I would have included Wilson and Stokes in the squad ahead of Green and Long. Green simply isn't an international standard player. Long is now getting his game for Reading but I think Stokes, despite his (personality) faults, is a technically good player that knows how to score goals.
I don't see any justification in calling a players like Walters up for a competitive double header. Daryl Murphy has been involved previously and hasn't done much.
Doc, it's your criticism that's lazy and conservative
I certainly do not remember any big dismay here about playing Keogh against Italy except that he was not at his best out wide and Lawrence was just back to the Stoke team/squad from a long lay off. However In May? - Lawrence was called in to the Nigeria game. He was low key but he was kept on and used in another friendly in August? where he impressed.
There is a method with selecting players for the squad. When a player does enough to be invited for an audition he has to turn up, rain, hail or shine. And he is not discarded after a poor display.
I certainly was not happy with Andy Keogh starting on the right against Italy away.
There's no denying the method you cited above. (What's your opinion of the method?) The question is, is it counter productive, restrictive, short sighted, even Lazy? My opinion is we don't have the playing resources to overlook players simply because they won't be considered outside of specified windows. There's too many competive fixtures between his windows of oppertunity for his stance to be truly productive in a small league.
I don't feel there's a correct balance between consistency and form, given our limited playing resources. And I don't believe it's a lazy criticism at all on my part. It'd be easier to say nothing and gripe about it after the event, when ,as I believe, we will get exposed through the middle and down the left. It boils down again to the point I made earlier. We're obviously week in these positions. I can't even say on good authority that Ward is better than Cunningham. It's just I don't know what, if anything, Trapp has seen of the like of Ward, Wilson or McCarthy this season to decide that they've less to offer. If Ward goes on to be another Derek Geary, we've nothing to loose by simply including him other that the cost of a flight and a bed. However if he becomes a Liam Lawrence, well then we've more to gain than to loose.
I agree with the Doc – not necessarily on rational grounds, more on emotional grounds. I just would like to see more evidence that Trap is looking at all the options. Maybe he has, we just don’t know.
The flipside is that Stan was quite imaginative in his selections and look where that got us.
As usual, most of the arguments are at the margins: Long over Stokes, Sheridan over Murphy / Walters...
Persistently viewing McShane as a full back worries me and I think if McCarthy & Wilson aren’t called up for at least the Norway game I’ll be really disappointed. The clear message is that Trap wants to see the players up close in the set-up before they're let loose in a competitive game. He has a "better the devil you know" way of thinking which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
There were clips from the press conference on Off The Ball last night. Trapattoni was asked about McCarthy and he said that McCarthy has played in a few positions so far this season and hasn't settled in any one yet. He's provided reasons for not picking Stokes in the past, plays for himself instead of the team. There were no questions about Wilson or Walters (at least none that were played on air). I do think that Trapattoni does keep track of the fringe players, Treacy, Cunningham, Green, etc weren't in the running before May, now they're squad players.
Foley/Kelly over Coleman
The majority of new caps under Trapattoni have been handed out in friendlies so it will be an interesting squad selection alright.
Some interesting quotes from Trap in todays IT regards Duff's fitness and Green/Gibson.
“McGeady played very, very, very well last time but when Duff comes back we will look at who plays,” he said. “It’s good to have players that force you to make difficult decisions,” said the manager.
“Duff played 90 minutes on Saturday and that’s good but he goes one month and then he gets injured. I wonder if he can play 90 minutes (in the group games). I hope so but it is something I have to consider.”
The Italian, however, appears to have no such doubts about Paul Green’s ability to keep soldiering on in midfield. Keith Andrews has been named in the squad but Trapattoni admitted that, having checked on his fitness only last week when he was told the midfielder was still not back in full training, he doesn’t really expect him to feature. He then shifted his attention to Green, prompted apparently by having seen the Derby County player receive five in a player ratings newspaper piece after the Andorra match.
“He got five but he was one of the best players on the pitch,” said Trapattoni with a hint of exasperation before attempting to coax a confession to being the guilty party from anyone who asked a follow-up question.
Trapattoni went on to compare Green to Nobby Stiles who, he observed, was a key player for England in his heyday.
“There are engineers and there are architects,” he remarked. “With him, we win many balls in midfield and that gives us a lot of opportunities. We are not Manchester United or Real Madrid. We are a team based on the best Irish players; a lot depends on our attitude and our willingness to work hard and help each other.”
Darron Gibson, it seems, may be starting on the bench again.
Going by those comments Green a certain starter with almost certainly Lawerence on the right. Left side now between Duff and McGEady with possibly McGeady in the driving seat. Surely he can't leave out a fit Duff?
Last edited by Noelys Guitar; 21/09/2010 at 11:30 AM.
Is that true about McCarthy? I thought he has only played CM.
No way he'll leave out Duff. I think.
Duff will likely be hurt again by game time as Trap seems to wonder. Hate to say it but a distinct possibility.
WOW Trap really likes Paul Green. Looks like it will take McCarthy a few more years to make this squad. Hopefully he is still here for that.
So Stokes is finished in Green as long as Trap is in charge?
Did the Russkies announce their team yet?
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
I was very surprised when I read those comments. It felt ever so slightly like the Steven Reid situation. It could well be Trap bigging up McGeady or playing early mind games with Advocat as I can't believe Duff won't start against Russia and Slovakia if fit.
I'd far prefer Duff to start ahead of McGeady. I think Duff links up far better with our strikers and exploits space more efficiently than McGeady. ie, Duff's assists for Keane goals from last campaign versus Cyprus in Dublin and France away spring immediately to mind.
If Duff is not match fit and doesn't get the nod - I suppose he's one hell of an impact sub to throw on with 20 to go - provided we're still in the game.
Green is being dismissed too quickly. He disappointed in the last 2 games but I think the Andorra game is not an accurate barometer of how you will fare against the likes of Russia.
The Andorra game had no ebb and flow as Andorran tactics were to hit the ground and stifle any head of steam we might build up.
Russia is a massive game for Green and I'd reserve judgement until then.
Quoting years at random since 1975
I doubt if anyone was happy but Lawrence was not an option then. I can see why he went for Keogh in the line up, to continue with the game he wanted us to play. It flopped and Keogh was subbed. Why Trap did not have an adequate replacement for Duff and McGeady in that game I don't know. Prob another manager would have used a RB at RM.
.There's no denying the method you cited above. (What's your opinion of the method?) The question is, is it counter productive, restrictive, short sighted, even Lazy? My opinion is we don't have the playing resources to overlook players simply because they won't be considered outside of specified windows. There's too many competive fixtures between his windows of oppertunity for his stance to be truly productive in a small league
I like method. I think it would be foolhardy to claim that Trap does not give serious consideration to the players on the fringe. He is methodical with bringing players in, he gives a fair consideration over what the player has to offer and not just depend on the performance in the friendly.
We have seen that with Fahey and Lawrence.
Green is also case in point, if Trap did not seriously consider the fringe players, Paul Green would not have got called up.
The evidence is that he does give serious consideration to the fringe players but he decides yes or no to call them up. Those decisions are made with reference to how he wants the team to play and what he sees are the players capabilities and character.
It is a no brainer why he likes Paul Green. I don't know why he wants to wait with McCarthy but I got the feeling from Brady (in that RTE web thing) that he agrees with Trap's decision to wait and thinks McCarthy is a dead cert to be a central player for Ireland in the future.
I'd share some of the same concern that Noely felt about Trap's comments about Duff.
It did sound as if he was saying too much and the in the press conference he sounded more undecided about Duff than the quote reads.
“Duff played 90 minutes on Saturday and that’s good but he goes one month and then he gets injured. I wonder if he can play 90 minutes (in the group games). I hope so but it is something I have to consider.”
So it would appear that Lawrence is fixed and it's Duff or McGeady.
I'd guess Duff starts and McGeady will come on as a sub.
But it would appear that Trap is more partial to a player with less ability who turns up fit than a more talented player who is injury prone and turns up on occasion.
I've watched McCarthy in lots of Wigan games last season and this one. He is often deployed on the left or right side of a 3 man midfield, with Diame in the centre. He played CM against Liverpool last season and did very well. He has also played in a rather ambiguous supporting role. Weirdly, this is the role that he has really impressed me because he is essentially everywhere. Keep in mind that Wigan are usually defending so he is often the first outlet when they try to get a break going. His passing and tackling are solid and he looks very mature for a guy his age. Good strength and tackles well, pretty cool head on the ball. In fact, the more I talk about it the more it bothers me that he is not in the squad.
He was an option. He was eligable a long time at that stage, but had not been looked at. A premiership player that was arguably one of best players in the C'Ship the year before that too.
We're getting our wires crossed. I've not said Trapp isn't looking at fringe players at all. I hadn't even heard of Green when he was named in the squad originally. You've already cited Fahy etc
I'm saying that at least 4 competitive games will have gone by (almost half a campaign) by the time he will have looked at alternative options up close in what we all acknowledge are very week areas in the team.
I think he's too methodical in bringing players in to then give them the fair consideration, to the point of denying the team of an asset for an undue period. Lawrence being a case in point. Fair consideration can be given to the 22nd and 23rd man in a competitive squad without compromising the team in any way.
We don't have the strength in depth afforded to teams like italy where most of these selections are marginal. I feel in crucially weak areas we have to keep scanning til we get the best of a mediocre bunch or unearth and capitalise on a gem at the earliest oppertunity.
Don't worry, cream always rises to the top and he'll get his chance. I wouldn't worry about him playing for Scotland, and even if he did, that would mean that his heart wasn't with us anyway.
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