Here come the good times - for those in power

[dahamsta]

Lads, I've no problem with debate but could ye try to sound more professional than the Dail?

I've travelled by rail in the UK. The main service I used was operated by Connex, who were terrible and lost their contract because of it. Their replacement is grand, can't complain but wouldn't praise. It was a city to suburban route though, so it's probably not the best representative. I've travelled to Kent too, the service was dire, didn't actually make it there the first day and barely made it the second. It was weather, which is fair enough, but the communications were absolutely terrible.

As has already been pointed out in this thread, if it'll work at all, privatisation will only work on the busy routes, and those outside the busy routes are marginalised. In Ireland, where people have moved out of the cities and will have to continue to do so, that's not good. In addition, although the modernisation of transport in public hands has been dire - I mean seriously, have you seen Dublin's idea of integrated ticketing? - privatisation will only improve this in the short term. If at all, if we're to use records on things like bikes for advertising as an example.

I have one last word on this subject: Railtrack

[Macy]

I've lived in the UK and here, and I am telling you now that Irish Rail and Dublin Bus are far better than their post privatisation UK equivalents. Although I think the mask has slipped and it's really about Union smashing, nothing to do with service provision - god forbid workers standing up for their rights with my post wanting to go about his business.

RTE is bias towards FF. But bias won't be solved by privatisation. I'd have more problem with the website being effectively a seperate commercial operation whilst Radio and TV still plugging it - that's where the unfairness comes imo. Number of licence payers clearly matters, particularly when comparing to the BBC. I'm sure RTE could manage without adverts with that income too.

A new low by FF on Primetime tonight saying getting the bonds away at such a rate was a success and shows the markets have faith in them! ECB/ IMF bailout only a question of when now, imo.

[bennocelt]

Living in the UK at moment, have to say possibly the service of irish rail is much better. I take the great Western into London central and no matter how busy it is it only ever has three carriages and is always packed to the rafters. But having said that the price of Irish rail is a joke, how much a weekly return ticket to get out of Dublin (nearly cheaper to get a ticket to london!)

Would be great if RTE were broken up. Home grown tv shows usually mean drivel presented by Daithi O Shea, Lucy Kennedy, Baz or some gah inspired muck.

[OneRedArmy]

Not only is Irish Rail better than the UK, the prices are in a different world. Belfast to Dublin (2 hour journey) is about €65 for a standard class return peak fare (€95 first class). London to Bristol (1 hour 45 mins) standard peak return fare is £170 (£260 first class).

Deregulation and privatisation of the railways in the UK has been an unmitigated disaster.

[Macy]

Would be great if RTE were broken up. Home grown tv shows usually mean drivel presented by Daithi O Shea, Lucy Kennedy, Baz or some gah inspired muck.

And whats the quality of the TV3 equivalents? RTE has (many) flaws, but to think that it would be better as a commercial operation is lunacy.

[Spudulika]

I'd hate to see RTE privatised, it's got it's flaws, lots of them, but I don't know a single national broadcaster that doesn't. There are plenty who slag off the BBC, but it still does the job. I know the GAA bashers on here won't agree, but they provide value for money in the large sports content and it would be interesting to see a Celebrity Gaffer show for amateur (and amateur run) clubs, Kathryn Thomas taking over Carlow Town, Bill Cullen and Sheriff YC, Roddy Collins and Bohs, oh wait a second.

[Eminence Grise]

When I suggested that RTE be broken up, it was so that the overtly commercial wings like 2FM and RTE2 could be sold off for profit, allowing RTE to use the licence fee for more public service broadcasting (more sport on digital, more documentaries and current affairs, drama co-productions with the private sector etc). So, it certainly wouldn't be privatisation, but a strategic disposal of assets, with a more consolidated national broadcaster re-emerging. It might be less reliant on advertising revenue, and better able to produce quality viewing that minimises toxic levels of exposure to Daithi bloody O'Se, Lucy Kennedy, Pat Shortt, Eurostar, Celebrity Bainisteor, Farm, Jigs and Reels and the rest of the rubbish they've been churning out to keep up with the competitive viewing market. It's like TG4: remove the financial need to pander to audiences seeking cheap, no-thinking entertainment (most likely the C2,D and Es), and better programming results (which should attract the more lucrative A,B,C1 and maybe Fs) for advertising.

[Dodge]

Patronise much?

RTE panders to advertisers, and advertsers don't want to know about poor C2s, Ds and Es.

Ergo its your ABC1s that are watching the "popular" drivel

[dahamsta]

Dodge, know the aggressive smart-arsery on the head or I'll ban you from CA.

[Dodge]

Didn't think I was being aggressive. Apologies if anyone thought so.

I do have a problem with anyone who thinks only professional people (as defined by ABC1) are interested in quality programming though

[dahamsta]

Dodge, you know damned well you're being agressive, and not just here; and I'm sick to death of warning you about this kind of behaviour. Stop it, now.

[Eminence Grise]

I think you’re confusing pedantry (which is my failing, but I’m an academic - it goes with the territory) with being patronising, which I absolutely reject. I'm not offended or angered by your posts, but I do want to clarify where I’m coming from.



I’ll admit that the JICNARS scale isn’t perfect: I’m a B, or will be again when I finish in college and get back to full-time work, but I read the Sun and grew up in a D/C2 household; An E may have a MBA, and be temporarily displaced on the scale. An F may run a herd of 200 prize-winning cows, and be as rich as Croesus. But the scale, for all its faults, is used and understood within mar comms. I’ll accept that more psychographic and behavioural factors are used than just JICNARS, but the end result is that you’ll see fewer ads for ringtones on RTE1 on a weekday night than TV3. Compare the schedules, you’ll see why.



As for advertisers not wanting to know about C2,D,E,F – that’s just a reductio ad absurdum. It all depends what you’re hocking. F is more important to Ivomec than all other categories combined; E and D for those ads urging you to part with unwanted gold jewellery for cash. Advertisers place their ads around programmes that deliver the audience to whom they want to sell.

[Dodge]

Nope, I knew he was referring to JICNARS.

I still absolutely reject his assertion that economic and professional status have any bearing on what level of quality you want in your TV programmes.

EDIT; my last post in CA for a while as I'll be banned soon enough

[Fr Damo]

OneRedArmy

Got the bonds away at a penal rate of interest. We effectively kicked the ball down the pitch 20 yards. The big question still hasn't been answered (how much will Anglo end up costing?). The problem is, until the economy at least flattens for a period of time (and it hasn't), there's no way of stating this with any certainty. If things keep getting worse, even more loans will go bad.

But getting back closer to the thread title, it is an indictment on the opposition that they are letting Coughlan get away on News at one saying how over subcribed the bond was and the Markets view Ireland as a good risk. Of course it was over subcribed, Soverign Ireland is being mugged. Much in the same way as those with subprime lenders charged two and three % above your AIBs / BOI's et al during the property frenzy.

By 2013 if we continue on this course we will be paying 5billion in Interest pa (on earnings of 38 and expenditure of say 40billion)

[OneRedArmy]

But getting back closer to the thread title, it is an indictment on the opposition that they are letting Coughlan get away on News at one saying how over subcribed the bond was and the Markets view Ireland as a good risk. Of course it was over subcribed, Soverign Ireland is being mugged. Much in the same way as those with subprime lenders charged two and three % above your AIBs / BOI's et al during the property frenzy.

By 2013 if we continue on this course we will be paying 5billion in Interest pa (on earnings of 38 and expenditure of say 40billion)

In fairness, its Mary Coughlan we're talking about....! As for getting mugged, would you lend money to us?! Perception is reality and we're perceived as a high risk, ergo you have to offer a higher interest rate.

As you say, we'll be paying for this for years.

[Billsthoughts]

I still absolutely reject his assertion that economic and professional status have any bearing on what level of quality you want in your TV programmes.

Agree with this totally. Am sure lots of well off young professionals watch the X Factor or soaps.

[Spudulika]

I was really surprised by the glorying in selling the bonds in the media, led by the same people who denied a bubble, who backed rising house prices and who didn't see any trouble (not all government people either). When Germany can sell bonds 4% lower than we can then it's a horrible sign. If it were under 6%, I'd be happy enough, however we're being slowly fed to the wolves and are now resembling more and more a full banana republic. I know there are subtle differences, though we were distracted by Biffo and Lenihan, then the sale of bonds are trumpeted as a return to stability. It's a shame on our media.

[mypost]

I've lived in the UK and here, and I am telling you now that Irish Rail and Dublin Bus are far better than their post privatisation UK equivalents. Although I think the mask has slipped and it's really about Union smashing, nothing to do with service provision - god forbid workers standing up for their rights with my post wanting to go about his business.

When I've travelled over there, the trains have been reliable, spacious, clean, and with reasonable fares. Closer to home, the Enterprise train is the most comfortable train in this country. I'm not saying there aren't unreliable trains over there, but from my experience, there has never been grounds for complaint.

Irish Rail's catchphrase on the other hand is, "We'd like to apologise for...." Trains are frequently dirty, expensive, and late. The only thing Irish Rail has over UK Rail imo is it's safety record, where there hasn't been a major accident since Buttevant.

However, it's perfect compared to Dublin Bus. Dublin Bus has all those issues, as well as rude drivers, and are constantly late. An experiment a number of years ago saw the introduction of digital timing boards similiar to as seen on the DART. It didn't last given how unreliable the buses were. The timetable at most stops, are merely marks on a page rather than anything approaching reliable information.

The TV licence was a form of luxury taxation, in the same way that wireless sets were levied at £1 or 10s, (depending on type) in the 1920s. It was a logical extension of an existing scheme that the taxpayer accepted.

In today's economic climate, people can't take "luxury taxation", nor an outdated tax introduced nigh on 50 years ago, that bears no resemblance to the world today. I see the point of the BBC having a licence fee, in exchange for no advertising. The no advertising is a massive attraction for viewers, while the BBC gets to fund itself another way. It's a win win situation for both viewer and broadcaster. It also allows other stations to compete with them for current affairs programmes, soaps, and sports coverage, on cable and satellite.

It's not punitive, because you can have the option - admittedly unwieldy - of avoiding paying for it by using a TV converter connected to a computer, digital projector and speaker system.

While possible, few people will ever take it up. I could pretty much live on the rte player, and youtube for tv content if I needed to, but people want to watch their shows in front of a conventional tv. For that, they have to fork out a hefty fee, which is outdated.

if controls are in place to stop absolute dross being produced by TV3, who are owned by a media corporation that dwarfs RTE and which could easily stump up a few quid for decent programming rather than repeating rubbish we're already ignored on ITV.

RTE are no strangers to repeating other rubbish. Only in their case, it's the BBC's rubbish.

The equal broadcast time during referenda and elections is frustrating for RTE and all broadcasters because it means having to give time to fringe interests with little to contribute to debate and discourse. Any journalist worth their salt wants to be asking questions of the big boys, not the loony fringe. But you know, TV3 isn't controlled by the government, and it has never once attempted a satirical programme to have a go at the government. Or, for that matter, ever attempted anything like RTE's current affairs output. And, I'd have to check the ratings on this, but I daresay Primetime gets a higher vieweship than Banged Up Abroad - and viewers equals cash for commercial broadcasters.

While equal airtime may be frustrating for RTE, the viewer/listener is the beneficiary, and has the opportunity to be well-informed for a neutral, or fully informed to take a side. The "looney fringe" have their side of the story to put across as well, and it's important that they get that chance to state their case. Even more so in European referenda where all the big boys always gang up on one side of the debate.

RTE currently has the best of both worlds, with income from licencing and advertising. It has all the major sports rights, all the popular chat shows, the major current affairs shows, runs 2 radio stations, has a hand in other networks, and a 24/7 online news stream. With such vast resources, it's no wonder that the other networks struggle to compete. They shouldn't be able to have that massive competitive advantage imo, but because of the licence fee, they have.

[Eminence Grise]

...which gets me back to my original point that there is a good case to be made for RTE being broken up, with one part remaining a mixed-model national broadcaster, and commercial elements being sold off to the private sector...

[OneRedArmy]

...which gets me back to my original point that there is a good case to be made for RTE being broken up, with one part remaining a mixed-model national broadcaster, and commercial elements being sold off to the private sector...

......effectively replicating admin and all non-"content" services and consequently costs?

I see the problem, and I agree RTE is trying to serve many masters and is essentially in an unfair situation, but we have to remember we are still a small country and that does impact how much competition there will be.