UEFA Champions League 2010-11

[Stuttgart88]

I used to never rate Valdes but he has made quite a few key saves at key moments this year. He was amazing against Seville for example. I think Dodge is right about Pique and Puyol too, and I can't believe that Abidal has turned into such a good player - I used to think he was muck.

I take the point about Milan's defence though, that really was something to behold. But was Sebastiano Rossi (was that his name?) in nets actually that good? I used to adore watching Savecivic (sp?) playing, but I don't think he's as good as Xavi or Iniesta.

[bennocelt]

BTW when everyone's fit barca don't have a 'huge' hole in defence. Valdes is one of the top 10 keepers in the world, Pique and Puyol are the best partnership. Abidal is a great left back (now...) and Alves does his defensive work ok too.

I'm not saying they're better than that Milan team (best I've seen) but they're certainly not the shambles some make them out to be

What games am I missing that Abidal has performed? Really I must be missing them?
I like Pique, and i think he is a lynchpin in def. Puyol was good a few years but (like maldini and matteus who both hung in there for ages) its time to give it up as he is a liabilty at this stage and has been so for a while now (but no team seems to be taking advantage of this - more to do with the standard of football these days than anything else!)
Alves goes so far forward thats its funny.

as for Rossi - yeah he wasnt the best but man was he tall/but he was a bit later on in any case? What about one of my all time favs - super sub Massaro?

[DeLorean]

The Inter result last year was a travesty. The ref got two match changing calls totally wrong and a third arguably wrong - all against Barcelona. Barca got lucky against Chelsea alright but that was two years ago. The team has grown since then. I agree with Souness - they are the best teanm I have ever seen. It remains to be seen if it turns into a dynastly like Real, Ajax, Liverpool and Milan (to alesser extent) but in absolute terms they're the best ever imho

Not sure the team has grown since then really. The performances against United were fairly similar and they won the treble in 2009. They're probably the best team I have seen as well but that doesn't say a whole pile. I only really started follwoing football after the 1990 WC, so even though I would have seen a nice bit of Van Basten, Gullit, etc. I wouldn't have seen them at their peak with the winning Milan teams. I don't agree that the Inter result was a travesty or anything near it. Inter may have rode their luck with a couple of poor decisions, but they were well worthy of their 3-1 win on the night. Barca have got plenty of decisions themselves so they can't have too many complaints there.

[DeLorean]

I take the point about Milan's defence though, that really was something to behold. But was Sebastiano Rossi (was that his name?) in nets actually that good? I used to adore watching Savecivic (sp?) playing, but I don't think he's as good as Xavi or Iniesta.

Rossi and Savicevic were later on really. Still a great team that hammered a serious looking Barcelona outfit in the 1994 Final, but surely the great Milan side was the one with the three Dutch stars?

[Stuttgart88]

Fair enough re-Milan and the Dutch vintage, though 1994 was sheer magic for me.

I don't see how you can say that Inter were well worth a 3-1 win when one goal was a mile offside, and Alves was clearly taken down for a penalty and almost certain away goal. So that's a 2 goal swing, and one of them an away goal. That's like saying we were worth a win but for the 2 goals the others scored. I'll accept that the Krcic(?) "goal" was debatable. Saying that Barca have got some decisions too is a red herring.

Benno, Puyol a liability? I think you must be on TommyC's painkillers.

Were the Brazil of 1970 and Ajax of the early 70s not great teams because they attacked at every possible moment? So what if Alves is Cafu-like in his attacking ambition?

[Closed Account 2]

I disagree about Valdes being a top 10 keeper, I think he might squeeze into a top 20 but he's miles behind the best in Europe. Imagine the Barca team with Casillas in it (or to a lesser extent Neuer or Adler or Hart or Buffon or Julio Cesar or Stecklenburg or De Gea or Akinfeev or Given just the first 10 that come to mind). Valdes, imo, has been found wanting on several occasions over the last year or so, in 2010 at the Arsenal he let a weak Wallcott shot squirm under him, and then the next year he was beaten by Van Persie at a near impossible angle, on his near post; and then he was beaten by Arshavin with a shot from beyond the edge of the box after he got muddled on his line. With all their famed possession most opposition teams get few chances to shoot against them, yet his erratic displays always ensure there will be chances for the oppositions.

I think Barca are weaker than in 2009 in a significant way. Their short range midfield passing game is better, but they have lost any semblance of a plan b. For all the adulation Guardiola is getting I cannot fathom why he got rid of Eto'o. Without him they lack a leading-the-line, out-and-out striker. When they were 3-1 down to Inter in the second leg it was obvious that Mourinho would pack the midfield and stifle Barca. For all their silky passing they struggled to break down a tactically astute Inter team, even when Busquets engineered the red card for Motta. That Inter back line had Zanetti, Maicon, Lucio and Walter Adrian Samuel in it, with Julio Cesar in goal. 3 of those players (Maicon, Cesar and Lucio) were part of the defensive unit exposed only 2 months later in Port Elizabeth when the Dutch got crosses and balls into their box which they simply couldnt deal with. Yet, when really faced with having to get a key goal Guardiola subbed off Ibrahimovic (disasterous signing for them) for Bojan. Had Eto'o been playing they would undoubtedly have had more joy.

The reason why I would pick Milan of the early 1990s vintage ahead of that team is not only were they better at the back, including Rossi over Valdes, but they were adaptable. As well as having great creative midfielders like Boban, Savicevic (dont forget Brian Laudrup couldnt get into that side in 1994) and small forwards like Simone, Massaro and Papin, they also had ones who were lethal in terms of aerial power and leading the line - Van Basten and Serena initially and then Weah a fair bit later. When winning the 1990 cup Milan had to twice come from behind in extra time (against Mechelen and then against Bayern in the semis) by changing their system and style of play - something I can't see this Barca team being able to do that drastically.

[Closed Account 2]

Also that Milan team had crippling injuries, Lentini after they had signed him as the worlds most expensive player, and Van Basten's career ending injuries.

[bennocelt]

Fair enough re-Milan and the Dutch vintage, though 1994 was sheer magic for me.

I don't see how you can say that Inter were well worth a 3-1 win when one goal was a mile offside, and Alves was clearly taken down for a penalty and almost certain away goal. So that's a 2 goal swing, and one of them an away goal. That's like saying we were worth a win but for the 2 goals the others scored. I'll accept that the Krcic(?) "goal" was debatable. Saying that Barca have got some decisions too is a red herring.

Benno, Puyol a liability? I think you must be on TommyC's painkillers.

Were the Brazil of 1970 and Ajax of the early 70s not great teams because they attacked at every possible moment? So what if Alves is Cafu-like in his attacking ambition?

Alves falling down again? Are u so sure it was a peno!
Yeah Puyol is a liability - but then maybe we have different opinions of what makes good defending

[ArdeeBhoy]

Why were United lucky to get one? It was a tight enough first half, wasn't a whole lot in it, Barca had more possession but were'nt a million miles better (unlike they were in the 2nd half).

I'll let you work it out.

It was a good move, but effectively their only shot on target, entirely out of the blue.
And even Wazza has been know to hit 'Row Z' with those efforts.

Essentially, they didn't deserve a goal in this one, so far away were they from Barca.

[DeLorean]

I don't see how you can say that Inter were well worth a 3-1 win when one goal was a mile offside, and Alves was clearly taken down for a penalty and almost certain away goal. So that's a 2 goal swing, and one of them an away goal. That's like saying we were worth a win but for the 2 goals the others scored. I'll accept that the Krcic(?) "goal" was debatable

On the balance of play on the night, I felt Inter were at least 3-1 the better side. That's not to say things wouldn't have been different had the crucial decisions gone the other way, of course they would. It's a bit like the Van Perise's sending off at the Nou Camp, no way in the world was that a second yellow in my opinion, and it could possibly have influenced the result of the match (had that chance at the end fallen to him instead of Bendtner, for example). It doesn't take away from the fact that Barcelona deserved to go through though, just as Inter deserved their win at the San Siro that night.

Saying that Barca have got some decisions too is a red herring

It is when talking about that match specifically. I just meant it in the context of what they have achieved over the past couple of seasons. Maybe they lost out on a Champions League title due to refereeing decisions, but they have reaped the benefits as well.

[Closed Account 2]

Abidal is up to his old tricks in Minsk tonight

[Stuttgart88]

Ha ha I came on here to say that Abidal scored last night. For Belarus! You beat me to it.