Why is defending a title such a benchmark? surely a team winning three titles in five years have done more than a team that won two in a row and no more, even if they have never defended it successfully.Originally Posted by The Fly
Not recently but...
The two clubs met in the quarter-finals of the 1984/85 Uefa Cup when the Spanish side beat 1-0 Tottenham away before a goalless draw at the Bernabeu helped them advance on the way to winning the trophy that season.
It's what of all the greatest European club sides throughout history have in common, whether that be the Real Madrid sides of the 1950s, the Ajax side of the early 1970s, the Bayern Munich side of the mid 1970s, the Liverpool side of the late 1970s, or of course, the Milan side of the late 80s/early 90s. The reason being, rather obviously, that each sides run of success was attained using largely the same players.
The Barcelona side that won the Champions League in the 2005/06 season had a very different composition to the current side, with Ronaldinho, Deco and Eto'o comprising its main attacking triumvirate. This stands in contrast to the current sides 'holy trinity' of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. Indeed, only two of the current Barcelona side (Valdes & Puyol) started the 2006 Champions League final, so for me it's too far removed from the current side to be considered.
Last edited by The Fly; 18/03/2011 at 5:13 PM.
League Table so far:
6 Bennocelt
6 Cfdh Edmundo
6 Shakermaker
5 Delorean
5 Gustavo
5 OwlsFan
Inter Milan v Schalke
Real Madrid v Tottenham
Barcelona v Shakhtar Donetsk
Chelsea v Man Utd
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
Inter Milan v Schalke
Real Madrid v Tottenham
Barcelona v Shakhtar Donetsk
Chelsea v Man Utd
I think Shakhtar could pull off a shock though....I don't know why but I don't think Barca will be meeting Madrid in the semi finals.
"If God had meant football to be played in the air, he'd have put grass in the sky." Brian Clough.
You'll NEVER beat the Irish.......you'll just draw with us instead!!!
Anyone who has seen Barca's last few domestic games will have seen how much he is missed. They shipped a bag load of chances against Sevilla and very nearly squandered a 2 goal lead at home to Getafe.
Against Sevilla they were a bit unlucky, hitting the woodwork, having shots cleared off the line and having at least one perfectly obvious penalty denied, but at the same time Valdes saved them at least once from defeat. They are looking very vulnerable without Puyol and because they have not rotated much their star players will have to dig deep to keep standards up.
They're by no means a shoo-in to win the CL, or even La Liga. Real Madrid have kept up the pressure.
Yeah I agree about the Barca 2006 team in relation to their 2009/current side. I meant a team that consists of largely the same players winning 3 in 5 years? I think this Barca side are going to be considered great regarless of whether they retain the title at some point or not. As I've said previously, it's far harder to retain now than before I think.
Inter Milan v Schalke
Real Madrid v Tottenham
Barcelona v Shakhtar Donetsk
Chelsea v Man Utd
The thing is there is a sort-of UEFA benchmark associated with it. Or more specifically winning 3 in a row or 5 overall.
http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/...7_DOWNLOAD.pdf
"Multiple-winner badge
19.14 Subject to a licence being granted by UEFA, multiple winners of the UEFA
Champions League (three consecutive times or a minimum of five times) may
wear a multiple-winner badge on the free zone of the left shirt sleeve..."
It's that blue badge with a white number and trophy outline on it. Real Madrid, Milan, Liverpool, Ajax and Bayern have it (the latter 2 via the 3-in-a-row method); and all have won it more times than Barca. I think the blue badge, while being an asthetic marketing gimmick, is a reasonably good measure of European pedigree. This Barca team is yet to utterly dominate Europe, yes in 2008 and 2010 they went out in semi finals to eventual winners, but Valencia made two finals in a row and Benfica were involved in 5 of the finals in the 1960s (winning 2), in an annual trophy is coming 3rd/4th really a success ?
I can't help but think that a lot of the pontification of this Barca team is media induced. Yes they might currently be the best side to watch, but labelling them as the best-team-in-the-world-ever™, people have already mentioned the Milan team of the 1980s-1990s (in a vastly more competitive domestic league), but you could just as easily make a case for Beckenbauer's Bayern, Cryuff's Ajax or internationally the Wunderteam, Puskas's Hungary etc being better.
Inter Milan v Schalke
Real Madrid v Tottenham
Barcelona v Shakhtar Donetsk
Chelsea v Man Utd
Just speaking for myself, but because the game progresses in terms of absolute standard every ten years or so, the best team of the moment is probably the best there has been.
But I take the point - Andy Murray who has won eff all is probably a better player in absolute terms than Bjorn Borg ever was, but Borg was a legend and Murray has a lot to do to become anything other than Britain's best player for a long time.
For me, Barcelona are the best team I have ever seen, but they are not as great a team (yet?) as some of those mentioned above. Absolute quality versus relative quality in a temporal context I suppose.
In terms of the extent to which a particular team has been better than every other team around them, AC Milan of the early 90's would be my choice. There was a bigger gap between them and everybody else than any other team I've seen in any era.
Yeah, it really is UEFA driven. I suppose the 5 overall bit doesn't really apply to 'the best team ever' discussion as there were more than likely going to be completely different sets of players from the first to the fifth, Real Madrid 1950's aside. I think any team that win three in a row have to be taken seriously in this discussion, much more so than two in a row. Man Utd weren't a million miles from winning two in a row in 2009, with a team that could hardly be considered 'great' even if they did.
More competitive league, yes...but more competitive European Cup competition?? probably not.
Inter Milan Schalke
Real Madrid Tottenham
Barcelona Shakhtar Donetsk
Chelsea Man Utd
Great Freudian slip from 'arry when being interviewed after Spurs' 4-0 defeat to Real. When talking about Crouch and his early Red card "he's the most ineffective player you could meet" or words to that effect, what he meant was inoffensive.......made me chuckle anyway.
I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?
"No, I drink to help me mind my own business....can I get you one? (c) Ronnie Drew
I had to laugh when he was bemoaning Krankjaer being injured on the bench.....since when did he give a f*ck about him.
Lets talk about six baby
I've missed predicitions on the two games last night, but for the other two qaurters I'll go:
Barca Shaktar
Chelsea Man Utd
He has always rated Kranjcar. Why else would he sign him for two different clubs? He's just not in his best eleven at the moment and, to be fair, it's hard to see where he would fit him in. Who would you drop for him with everybody fit?
Redknapp on Kranjcar
Who would you have gone for before last night's games, we'll believe you? (except maybe Bennocelt, serious trust issues that fella!)
Surprised to see you go for Man U, any particular reason or just a hunch?
He should really play him more often if he rates him that highly. Recent results against struggling teams in the league would surely warrant giving the fella a chance mind you i heard him and an interviewer at the weekend saying that recent results are more to do with these struggling teams being very good. Bale didn't play Saturday so he could have played him then instead of Jenas or he could easily have played him in place of Lennon against West Ham or brought him on at at some stage, he could have played him against Wolves or even Blackpool seen as he rates him so highly. All those results have been extremly poor for Spurs and here's a player he rates highly getting five minutes here and five mintes there if that and he is moaning about him last night among other excuses. Amazing how things can be spinned.
Lets talk about six baby
Yeah, it's strange that he doesn't get more game time alright, especially after his winning goals against Bolton and Sunderland. Jenas is awful alright, he should always play ahead of him. Maybe he doesn't trust him in the centre.
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