UEFA Champions League 2010-11

**OwlsFan** · 09/03/2011, 9:50 AM

Sad day for the Premiership when their best footballing team was played off the park, even when they had 11 men. Amazing to see that Arsenal could not hold on to possession for more than a few passes. Barcelona is a great team but how were they able to deny the Gooners any space? Can other teams not do the same in the Premiership?

As for Van Persie, I don't believe for 1 second that he didn't hear the whistle. If you watch the whole game, you will see that none of the players either before or after the incident had any problem hearing the whistle during the whole game. He lied. Some day players will take responsibility for their own stupidity (which is what is was when he was on a yellow) and the ref was obviously a letter of the law man. The sending off was harsh and the ref might have had a word with him instead but he had already booked an Arsenal player for holding on to the ball and not allowing Barca take a quick free kick. To be honest, I don't think it affected the outcome although Arsenal could have won it in the end.

**shakermaker1982** · 09/03/2011, 9:54 AM

When Almunia kept making those saves last night I thought Arsenal were going to sneak it but the chance fell to Bendtner. A good striker would have taken that chance.....I liked the line Arsenal kept (both defenders and midfielders) during the first half. Barca had loads of possession but there wasn't too much space in front of the back 4 and they kept trying to chip the perfect ball over to Messi/Pedro and Villa. Unfortunately a silly mistake by Fabregas meant they had to open up a bit more in the 2nd half.

Barca look sensational at times but my God talk about trying to walk into the net.

I'd also love to see how they'd get on against somebody like Stoke. Great clash of styles.

**KK77** · 09/03/2011, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

When Almunia kept making those saves last night I thought Arsenal were going to sneak it but the chance fell to Bendtner. A good striker would have taken that chance.....I liked the line Arsenal kept (both defenders and midfielders) during the first half. Barca had loads of possession but there wasn't too much space in front of the back 4 and they kept trying to chip the perfect ball over to Messi/Pedro and Villa. Unfortunately a silly mistake by Fabregas meant they had to open up a bit more in the 2nd half.

Barca look sensational at times but my God talk about trying to walk into the net.

I'd also love to see how they'd get on against somebody like Stoke. Great clash of styles.

Not much chance of Stoke imposing their style seen as they wouldn't have the ball.

**shakermaker1982** · 09/03/2011, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by KK77

Not much chance of Stoke imposing their style seen as they wouldn't have the ball.

Hard tackles, goal kicks, throw ins........I think it would be hilarious. No team is ever going to outplay Barca. Mourinho has one way of dealing with them i.e. congest middle of park & force Barca to go out wide but is there anybody able to do that this year? That was a top Inter side last year and they managed to beat them with only 30% of the ball.

**DeLorean** · 09/03/2011, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Sad day for the Premiership when their best footballing team was played off the park, even when they had 11 men. Amazing to see that Arsenal could not hold on to possession for more than a few passes. Barcelona is a great team but how were they able to deny the Gooners any space? Can other teams not do the same in the Premiership?

Yes, the good teams. Chelsea and Man Utd have murdered Arsenal on more than a few occasions over the past three or four years, and Liverpool have coped pretty easily with them as well.

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

As for Van Persie, I don't believe for 1 second that he didn't hear the whistle. If you watch the whole game, you will see that none of the players either before or after the incident had any problem hearing the whistle during the whole game. He lied.

I think it was an absolutely ridiculous decision, petty beyond belief. I can't stand Arsenal but I think Van Persie was dead right to abuse the referee after the match. Even if Van Persie had heard the whistle, he was in a full motion of lining up a shot and instinctively kicked it towards the goals, it's not as if he drove it into the stands or kicked it away in petulance.

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

To be honest, I don't think it affected the outcome although Arsenal could have won it in the end.

We'll never know if it would have changed the result, but I don't think that's the point. Of course Barca deserved to get through, but the better team should go through or get knocked out fairly*. If I was an Arsenal fan, I'd certainly have been more optimistic if the final chance fell to RVP other than Nicklas "World Class" Bendtner.

*Not suggesting Arsenal were treated unfairly overall, as they got the better end of a couple of decisions in the first leg especially.

**dfx-** · 09/03/2011, 2:08 PM

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Hard tackles, goal kicks, throw ins........I think it would be hilarious. No team is ever going to outplay Barca. Mourinho has one way of dealing with them i.e. congest middle of park & force Barca to go out wide but is there anybody able to do that this year? That was a top Inter side last year and they managed to beat them with only 30% of the ball.

I really wish people would stop saying it about Inter. Inter just just just got away with their tactics. It wasn't a masterplan...a good goal by Bojan in injury time being disallowed got Inter through. To say nothing of the offside goal in the first leg. And it means that attacking teams like Germany v Spain in the World Cup and now Arsenal v Barcelona have tried to copy it.

And failed.

**shakermaker1982** · 09/03/2011, 3:00 PM

Man Utd did it back in 2009 home & away and beat Barca. Chelsea under Hiddink also tried it and nearly succeeded the year after. There is a template to beat Barca.

**OwlsFan** · 09/03/2011, 3:13 PM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

I think it was an absolutely ridiculous decision, petty beyond belief. I can't stand Arsenal but I think Van Persie was dead right to abuse the referee after the match. Even if Van Persie had heard the whistle, he was in a full motion of lining up a shot and instinctively kicked it towards the goals, it's not as if he drove it into the stands or kicked it away in petulance.

Why did he need to lie then about not hearing the whistle? Why not say "I was in full motion of lining up a shot and instinctively kicked it towards the goals" (a pretty poor effort at that) but no, he gestures towards his ear, pretends he didn't hear the whistle when every other whistle apparently had been heard throughout the game. Both chasing players had given up the chase and he must have been aware of that. I agree it was petty of the referee to send him off but players on yellow cards have to be responsible for their own actions and for getting sent off for non-related game incidents like taking jerseys off when scoring, jumping in to the crown and shooting at the goal after the whistle has gone when all are dog standard yellow card offences, no matter how petty.

**Stuttgart88** · 09/03/2011, 4:08 PM

Originally Posted by dfx-

I really wish people would stop saying it about Inter. Inter just just just got away with their tactics. It wasn't a masterplan...a good goal by Bojan in injury time being disallowed got Inter through. To say nothing of the offside goal in the first leg. And it means that attacking teams like Germany v Spain in the World Cup and now Arsenal v Barcelona have tried to copy it.

And failed.

Offside goal and a slam dunk penalty not awarded to Alves in the first leg. Mourinho got lucky big time.

**Stuttgart88** · 09/03/2011, 4:10 PM

I'm half with you, half against you OwlsFan. I reckon VP did know he was given offside but it was totally petty to be sent off and he was entiteled to have been given the benefit of the doubt. Footballers just do these things instinctively. The first yellow was pretty harsh too.

**Stuttgart88** · 09/03/2011, 4:12 PM

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

There is a template to beat Barca.

I think this Barca team is playing much better than back then, and United and Chelsea are weaker.

I think that unless the opposition gets quite a large slice of luck, like Inter last year, this Barca team is going to be really hard to beat.

**dfx-** · 09/03/2011, 5:01 PM

The Barca side that Utd beat were a rabble, coming to the end of their time under Rijkaard. The current side would beat them 50-0. They couldn't win away from home at all..

The Barca team that beat Hiddink were pretty much this team...and Iniesta's goal in that game is probably one of the defining goal in the last decade for Barca. Just behind Rivaldo's overhead..

**geysir** · 09/03/2011, 7:03 PM

I think you might have got your games mixed up dfx. The Barca team that beat MU in the CL final, played them off the park, imo MU were humiliated.
The previous year, a Barca team managed by Rijkaard lost to Man U in the CL sf, in a tie that Barca dominated but could not score.
That Barca team was no rabble even compared to today's Barca.

**dfx-** · 09/03/2011, 8:19 PM

I'm talking about the Utd beating them being a template comment a few posts up. The team Utd beat with Scholes' goal was a shadow of this team, disinterested, not incisive, Ronaldinho, Deco, Henry. They never threatened Utd bar a young Messi. That was a season where they were beaten 4-1 by Real, couldn't win away from home to save their lives..it was sad to see.

The team that beat Utd in the CL final was the year of Eto'o, Henry and Messi in a glorious season...

**old git** · 09/03/2011, 8:52 PM

Originally Posted by dfx-

I'm talking about the Utd beating them being a template comment a few posts up. The team Utd beat with Scholes' goal was a shadow of this team, disinterested, not incisive, Ronaldinho, Deco, Henry. They never threatened Utd bar a young Messi. That was a season where they were beaten 4-1 by Real, couldn't win away from home to save their lives..it was sad to see.

The team that beat Utd in the CL final was the year of Eto'o, Henry and Messi in a glorious season...

Dfx ,, your losing yourself in your own mind

henry was on the bench & ronaldinho was not even in squad for game ..

yes it was a p*ss poor barcelona team ( massive sarcasam ) see the disintrested players below who played for barcelona that night.. what a shower of wasters !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! compared to uniteds 11 world class players

Manchester United Barcelona
1 Edwin van der Sar ..... 1 Victor Vald�s
6 Wes Brown ....... 3 Gabriel Milito
5 Rio Ferdinand ...... 5 Carles Puyol
3 Patrice Evra ......... 22 Eric Abidal
4 Owen Hargreaves ....... 11 Gianluca Zambrotta
16 Michael Carrick ....... 24 Yaya Tour�
18 Paul Scholes ....... 20 Deco
17 Nani ........ 6 Xavi
13 Park Ji-Sung ....... 8 Andr�s Iniesta
32 Carlos T�vez ........ 9 Samuel Eto'o
7 Cristiano Ronaldo ........ 19 Lionel Messi

Substitutes
22 John O'Shea Sylvinho 16
11 Ryan Giggs Thierry Henry 14
27 Mikael Silvestre Eidur Gudjohnsen 7
24 Darren Fletcher Jos� Manuel Pinto 13
29 Tomasz Kuszczak Edm�lson 15
8 Anderson Lilian Thuram 21
47 Danny Welbeck Bojan Krkic 27

Substitutions
Ryan Giggs for Nani (77)
Thierry Henry for Andr�s Iniesta (60)

Darren Fletcher for Paul Scholes (77)
Bojan Krkic for Samuel Eto'o (71)

Mikael Silvestre for Patrice Evra (90)
Eidur Gudjohnsen for Yaya Tour� (88)

Yellow Cards

**Stuttgart88** · 09/03/2011, 10:08 PM

This Barcelona team is the best team I have ever seen in my life. Even better than Jim McLaughlin's Rovers

But football is such a mad game that if that useless stick Bendtner had taken a very very decent chance on 89 minutes, a rag tag Arsenal team would have beaten them. It's not rugby or basketball where the best team is virtually guaranteed to win. Human error - players' or officials' can be really costly. One of the best things about football is that a team that is well set up and that gets a bit of luck can get a result against a superior team, because it's a low scoring game.

I hope Barcelona go on to win this competition without any controversy. They are as close to perfection as I have seen in 35 years of watching football.

wrt Wenger's moaning, I have a strong suspicion that, not just being a sore loser, he is trying to protect his team's mindset. I think he is trying to get them to think that they are victims and not just inferior. He'd be wrong by any objective measure, but although to the public it looks like moaning and sour grapes I think there may be a higher purpose.

Ferguson has achieved something similar - United aren't on poor form - they're victims, in their minds.

**Stuttgart88** · 09/03/2011, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

The Barca team that beat MU in the CL final, played them off the park, imo MU were humiliated.

True as the game panned out, but what if Ronaldo (?) took a great chance to open the scoring after about 7 or 8 minutes? I think he mis-hit a volley from 12 yards into the ground but I was drunk then and I'm drunk now...

Goals change football matches, sometimes beyond recognition.

**dfx-** · 09/03/2011, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by old git

Dfx ,, your losing yourself in your own mind

henry was on the bench & ronaldinho was not even in squad for game ..

yes it was a p*ss poor barcelona team ( massive sarcasam ) see the disintrested players below who played for barcelona that night.. what a shower of wasters !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! compared to uniteds 11 world class players

On paper old git yes..

Barca finished third that season, 17 points behind Real, they were very poor. They picked up 64 points all season. They already have 74 by March. When you see Zambrotta and Milito who even Busquets gets ahead of nowadays, that was a team low on confidence..the team was riddled with in-house disputes between Eto'o and Ronaldinho and Deco and Messi

**shakermaker1982** · 10/03/2011, 7:19 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think this Barca team is playing much better than back then, and United and Chelsea are weaker.

I think that unless the opposition gets quite a large slice of luck, like Inter last year, this Barca team is going to be really hard to beat.

Inter were magnificent in the first leg. Ok Barca were unlucky in the 2nd leg with that 'goal' at the end but Inter did play 60 minutes or so with 10 men after a disgraceful bit of play acting by Busquet's (I think).

Chelsea the year before at Stamford Bridge contained them superbly until Iniesta got that goal at the death. How many penalties should Chelsea have had though? Yet the ref failed to give one. If Chelsea had been given a penalty and scored it then Barca would have been out..... Barca have had their fair share of luck as well.

Barca are a magnificent side but they are not invincible. Give Mourinho and Madrid a shot in a Cup game (CL Final maybe?!) and I'd be surprised if Barca tore them a new one like they did in that 5 nil thrashing.

Man Utd-Barca the 2009 final I think (I get my years mixed up) was very one sided after 80 minutes but like you say Stutts Man Utd started very well and should have scored. Ronaldo thought he could win the game on his own and the rest is history. I don't think Fergie got his tactics and his side right on the night. It might have not mattered much but I think they'd have given Barca more of a game if Tevez and Scholes had started.

**DeLorean** · 10/03/2011, 8:38 AM

Excellent post SM but for some reason I'm not able to thank it. You pretty much covered everything I was thinking when reading the other posts. Inter did play very well against Barcelona and only got the bit of luck they deserved in my opinion. I think it's ridiculous to talk about Inter being lucky without paying reference to Chelsea being robbed the year before. I also agree about United's tactics in the 2009 Final, unlike the year before where they got them spot on. Not too dissimilar to Sunday, where it was nothing short of brain dead not playing a five man midfield.

Edit: 'Thanks' button suddendly became visible!