Roche and Robinson were victims of smears, Lenihan and Norris were "victims" of their own past conduct. There's a difference. I think it's ridiculous to lump them together. Additionally, Norris and Lenihan are/were established politicians anyway.Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Apart from how information was made public, which I think is what you're referring to, the nastiness is equally present in how the media reported all the cases. Presidential campaigns are like cockfights for the op ed writers and phone-in shows, though not so much for the regular pol corrs who see so much blood it doesn't excite them any more.
Macy, Robinson was a politician too - plus she was one of the toughest and best barristers in the business. There is a real nasty element in Irish politics that has caught so many in the crosshairs. Crooks like Haughey and Bertie escape almost scot free, yet others outside the central circles are not so lucky.
Mary Davis will be next in the firing line, Gallagher hasn't a hope as he's a dead duck. The sad thing is we'll get another geriatric in the Aras for some spurious reason of his past contrinbutions to Irish life.
Yeah, but it was still a smear on her rather than exposure of something she'd done. It's clear I wasn't a Norris fan, but at the same time I can't see how he has any complaints about what came out. Ditto Lenihan - he was caught rapid. Roche was hung out to dry on something that happened to her brother 30 years or something before, of which there wasn't actually any conviction or anything.
I'd say they're digging up quotes and photo's of Davis to confirm she's an FFer. It's done for Gallagher - although as I've probably said before, it's his denials that have really done for him.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Michael O'Muircheartaigh and Gay Byrne are the latest to be linked with the presidency.
At the rate we're clocking up candidates, there'll soon be one for everybody in the audience.
As potential official FF candidates - as if Bryne being appointed to the RSA wasn't enough confirmation. Would make Higgins look like a young candidate.
Mitchell is possible trouble over an appeal for clemency for an unrepentant murderer of a doctor who worked in an abortion clinic, and his body guard. There's even audio of the murderer saying he was doing God's work. To me, he'd want to produce evidence of it being part of a general campaign against the death penalty with other letters for non religious fanatics. As it stands, it's worse than Norris's letter. And while I don't believe there was a homophobic campaign against Norris in the media (although I believe Waters and Quinn are putting the boot in today), the way Mitchell's letter is being dismissed so readily is ridiculous.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Good points on the 3 you mentioned Macy, Lenihan was grubby and unfortunately for himself and his family already quite ill. Adi Roche ran foul of FF and they did her in.
In regards to Norris I'd look more to his own failings as a person than to a media witch hunt. In general the media were very kind to him, I still wonder what would have happened if he'd written the letter to defend or give a character reference for a Catholic Priest or an Anglican vicar. It was a monumental (sound like Shane Ross there) error of judgement and showed his neediness, and (sorry EG) how Trinners heads just can't handle the real world :-)
I'm still waiting for the Rape Crisis centre or ISPCC to come out and hammer him, but then again.....
Spud, if you'd spent as long in Trinners as I have (10 years looking for the exit... slow learner, me!) you'd realise that that small plot of 40 acres is the real world!!
Not sure I entirely agree with you on Norris. I agree that it wasn't a media witch hunt, but his flaws and poor judgement were made public by somebody at this time for a political reason - it's been 19 years (and 4 or 5 Senate campaigns) since Nawi was convicted; your average "Concerned Mother of 6" riging Joe doesn't sit on that kind of info for that long.
Macy is right that Mitchell is being given an easier time by the media over his letter-writing indescretion. You might argue that what he did was consistent with the views of the people he represents as we voted to remove the death penalty from the constitution. I'd be pretty sure that most people think pleading for a life (meaning life!) sentence instead of execution is better than pleading for a reduced sentence for statutory rape. Or you could argue that the FG PR machine is a lot better at managing issues than DN's was.
As a UCD grad and particpant (unbeaten) in a number of colours matches, always in TCD - Exam hall or JCR, oh and once in the new gym - I can be very biased, though I always bring guests to TCD and a couple of my best friends graduated from it. So I guess it's just age envy :-)
I agree (and said before) that there was a political motive for the leak, though the nature of this second one should have ruled him out anyway. In fact I can't believe his arrogance (he's not a stupid man) to think this was acceptable. And it does seem like it neatly matched up with his views on arab and greek pederasty, so what was he thinking? He still has gotten an easier ride than if it were you or I, or another politician or god forbid a Bishop!
Mitchell will get away with what he did because the party machines will churn on until they've made up our minds for us. FG now have the reins of power and wont' let go easily.
What is it with Irish liberals and Israel / palestine ? Why is this a huge issue ? In what parallel vortex does one's view on Israel have an impact on our presidential election.
Many many many years ago, I was young and needed the money - but I attended 2 Ogra FF meetings. In advance of the third, I got the agenda in the post, and the contents of the agenda ended my connection.
Item 3: Letter writing campaign to Israel
Bear in mind this was the early 90's in Dublin, so no local issues to worrk about - but clearly Yizhak Rabin was bricking himself that Ogra FF was on his case
Utterly utterly pathetic and emblematic of everything that is corrupt in Irish politics - engrossed in theory, fake principle, "taking positions", wrapped up in "issues", but egregiously unqualified and disinterested in actually governing or managing anything
DB Cooper is alive !
That's a wee bit harsh Angus, surely you can understand why people might be a bit vexed on the topic of Palestine, and anyone who's been to a camp or "zone" will come back a little anti-Israel. I think many people in Ireland get het up basically because of the colonial overtones and unfairness of the situation, without actually realising that (and I am quite far from right wing when I say this) that we need a strong bulwark against the fanatical tide that is just a few miles down the road in Saudi. The Israeli and their backers/apologists behaviour has radicalised hundreds of thousands and this is a danger we see today. However in this debate there is little balance.
My own personal belief is that the topic of Israel suits everyone as it detracts from one of the final acts of ethnic cleansing from the 2nd world war - sending jews off to the desert. It would have been far better to settle them in a depopulated zone of Germany or Eastern Europe, however it didn't make sense to the leaders of the time, plus headbangers were pushing a zionist agenda which suited Stalin, Churchill et al.
I don't disagree that it is a very nasty situation for everyone involved - and I get that. What I don't get is why it has such importance for Irish liberal types; more than Yugoslavia, more than Rwanda, more than East Timor, more than Norn Iron, more than Turkey / Cyprus etc - more than virtually anything.
But back at the ranch, Norris was not done by a conspiracy - he was done by being foolish and by the staggeringly bad misjudgement for which he is renowned. Love him on TV / Radio and he adds to the gaiety of the nation and is entertaining etc - but as Prez ? No chance in hell
The role is all about tone and pitch - and he would be guaranteed to do or say something stupid
DB Cooper is alive !
And now Gaybo is seriously weighing in as a potential candidate now. Argh!
In the papers today that he has been getting serious funding offers.
So, who will I vote for with such an enlightening group of people as our potential Bill-signer.
Just heard him riffing with a mic in his face last night about the country's being ruined by "Brussels". Sounded like somebody from UKIP. He should save that bull and have a tilt at the Euros next time they roll around.
At the rate this thing is careering downhill now -I'd rather just have the Queen do the job for us. Better CV.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
Oh the irony. Sure remember what SF originally looked for. Oh the vindication of Griffith.
Gents, you are not alone in discussing this.
Sir, – In the absence of serious contenders for the presidency, may I propose a superbly qualified candidate: Name: Liz Windsor. Qualifications: Has successfully done the job on neighbouring island for 62 years. Descended from Brian Bórú. Has the authority to unite Ireland by her signature. Offers middle way between Catholic and Presbyterian churches. Motivated to see Ireland flourish to avoid default on her banks’ loans of €100 billion. All problems solved! – Yours, etc,
http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/in...#1224302231022
When you put it that way...
Gay Byrne is the new favourite. Which is bad enough, before you realise that he'll be succeeded by Pat Kenny in 7/14 years time
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/
Just saw that new opinion poll. Democracy sux.
...then Tubridy around 2040-54... Followed by 28 years of Jedward to 2082.
Let's face it: this century is pretty much effed already!
Seriously wondering whether I'll end up drawing a box on the ballot paper, x-ing it and writing "none of the above" beside it. Not a single candidate so far I would genuinely want to see in the Aras.
Heard Stephen Collins on the lunchtime news saying that he thought it wasn't that good a poll for Byrne*. His logic was that a high profile candidate would expect to start very high and then gradually slip as the campaign went on. He also didn't think he wouldn't run, citing his statements about the EU last night as an example as to why he might not be suitable.
*His opinion was that it was probably best for Higgins overall. I don't get the big hate of Higgins myself, but it appears to me that the INM hacks don't like the thought of it (so that's a ringing in endorsement imo!)
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
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