He isn't actually even a candidate yet, but it could hit him with the conservative FF councillors he needs. Although with two "Independent" FFers in Gallagher and Davis also looking he'd be hard pushed to now anyway (perfectly legitimate for FG and Labour to not support competition for their candidates imo).Originally Posted by Mr A
I don't see this as anything but mud slinging. Probably damage done at this stage, unfortunately.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
It's a pity, I've spent the last week in the Netherlands and Belgium, and the general opinion of people there of us is that while individually they love us, societally, we're a conservative, homophobic, catholic-dominated social and cultural backwater. Perhaps electing an openly gay President would go some way towards dispelling that not-wholly-undeserved impression
Their opinion probably is true, however, I still don't think the chance to show we aren't complete bigots is enough a reason to vote Norris. imho obviously.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Obviously! But one of the biggest functions of the President is to project a good image for Ireland at home and abroad, and proving we're not complete bigots would be a nice addition to our image!
I can't really say I've been following the "presidential race" with any strict adherence, being over here in England, but Norris would be Europe's first openly gay president, if I'm not mistaken, not including Icelandic prime minister, Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir, who I believe to be the world's first openly gay prime minister or head of government.
Has Norris fallen behind from a leading position in the opinion polls then or does it remain to be seen? It would be a shame really if he was to lose out over this. The "revelation" stinks of homophobic sabotage and I've always had the impression of Norris as a resoundingly charming and progressively-minded chap; maybe too forward-thinking for his own good. Could this stunt have the unintended effect of galvanising sympathy and support around him?
Just not convinced Norris would be able to pull off the former, to be honest.
I don't think there have been any polls yet, bar one of those stupid liveline text yokes. I personally think that anyone who can't see through that getting dragged up now, wouldn't have voted for him anyway.
As I said earlier, I really can't see him getting a nomination. Two FFers in Gallagher and Davis disguised as independents, and FG and Labour running candidates so legitimately not interested in supporting other nominations at council level, where's he going to get the councils from?
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Norris has an advantage over Gallagher and Davis in that he can try for nominations from 20 members of the Oireachtas. There are enough independents between both houses to achieve this, and it might suit the technical grouping in the Dail to endorse a candidate who has a realistic chance of beating whoever FG can force into running and whoever wins the Labour nod. I suspect Gallagher is being used to keep local FF cumainn busy, and make mischief for FG and Labour. FF need somebody to run to show the troops that it's still in business, but not at the risk of damaging one of the party statesmen/women. Davis, I'm not sure about; I don't know where her support is going to come from.
The nearest thing to a poll I've seen was thejournal.ie effort on the 27th of May, which had Norris with over 50% of the support from a poll of over 3000. Obviously being an internet based poll it was probably open to manipulation.
The recent revelations are a complete character assasination attempt and the sad thing is it will probably be enough to prevent him even getting a nomination. I'm not 100% that he'd get my vote but I'd certainly be considering him and I'd like to at least see his name on the ballot.
Tallaght Stadium Regular
Be interesting to run a poll on Foot.ie, given the subject matter and associated stereotypes. Is the candidate list complete yet?
Candidate list isn't complete. Sure there's at least 3 looking for just the labour nomination. FG hasn't decided yet (although McGuinness is the only declared left afaik). There's several rumoured, or having expressed an interest too.
I'm not sure whether a poll would give much indication on the stereotype issue either. Just speaking personally, his sexuality isn't even an issue as why Norris wouldn't get my vote.
I really think if this was a runner, he wouldn't be trailing around the councils. A lot of "independents" in both houses, aren't really independent anyway.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
The football world being the last bastion of homophobia and all that? It doesn't say a great deal for the global game when Anton Hysén is the only openly-gay professional footballer I'm aware of worldwide. I'd imagine the great thinkers of Foot.ie are a bit more socially enlightened and progressive than your average football fan, mind. I'd have no qualms with backing Norris, although I could probably do with reading up a bit on his campaign.
The premise that not being a Norris fan is equal to homophobia is nonsense. If I won't vote for Mary Davis, does it make me anti people with intellectual disabilities?
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Who equated the two?
Not what I was suggesting at all, if that's your implication. Obviously, many factors come into making a decision and there's no obligation to vote for Norris just in order to prove one isn't homophobic. I was simply making a comment, pretty much irrelevant to Norris' campaign for the Irish presidency, on the football world in general given dahamsta's mention of the social stereotype that plagues the game; that being the perception of the sport as one of the last bastions of homophobia.
To clarify, if I'm not mistaken, Norris would be a relatively popular candidate for the presidency. Well, before the attempted smear anyway. If a poll was instigated on this site and he was found to be disproportionately unpopular amongst a group of Irish football supporters, then one might have to ask further questions as to the reasoning behind this.
Is it not implicit with the talk of stereotypes? Maybe I'm the only one taking it that way, so fair enough.
There's too many variables though to make any assumptions, even if it was a proper poll of football supporters, rather than internet.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
The current issue of Phoenix (http://www.thephoenix.ie/phoenix/welcome.do - subscription needed) reckons Pat Cox might get the FG nod, but may have to join the party first. With Bruton and Kelly out, only McGuinness is left, and she isn’t seen as a likely winner.
I’d back Norris against Cox, even with the FG machine behind him.*
@DI – do you not think that unpopularity among Irish football fans is a given anyway?
If he supports an English or Scottish team, he’ll be seen as a barstooler.
Unless he can produce ticket stubs in l.s.d. for Irish internationals in Dalyer, he’s one of the Olé Olé brigade. If he can produce those stubs, he's a throwback to the black and white era and barstoolers will ridicule him.
If he supports a LoI club, 20 sets of supporters will think it’s the wrong one, but respect him for having one. Barstoolers will ridicule him.
If he supports a junior club, hardly anybody will know, but barstoolers will ridicule him.
And if he supports any of these, he’ll have to start following the Dubs to get the GAA vote.
Edit
* Yes, reading it back, I realise that this has tremendous innuendo potential, but y'know what I mean.
Last edited by Eminence Grise; 02/06/2011 at 1:28 PM.
What John83 said. Not voting for Norris doesn't make someone a homophobe, but homophobes are unlikely to vote for him. They're completely different statements.
And yes, there's a lot of homophobia in football - the chants are pathetic in this day and age - which is why I think it'd be interesting. Maybe when the list is complete.
But if we're accepting the fact that not voting for Norris doesn't make someone a homophobe, I don't see what the latter would prove about homophobia in football? It's that I'm just not getting (possibly due to tiredness)
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
I don't think it'd prove anything, I'm just interested. Foot.ie is hardly academia!
I wonder what kind of a difference in results you'd get between here and the League forum, or the league forum here and the league forum on Boards. Maybe Foot.ie should be academia...
That's true, which is why I'd penetrate the reasoning further by asking questions rather than jumping to assumptive conclusions.
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