QuoteGabba gabba, we accept you, one of us.Originally Posted by Dodge
Brendy,
How can you claim that democracy works in one sentence
and then claim that people are coerced into voting?
Surely this is a contradiction!
Gabba gabba, we accept you, one of us.
no, they're definitely idiots. they're not coerced, they're just too stupid to think for themselves and decide otherwise
Éanna was on about our 'democracy'. In a true democracy, people wouldn't be coerced.
It's a bit insulting to call them idiots. The people who vote for FF, the PDs and your man Barrett (is there much difference between them really?) do so because they've been won over by the propaganda. It's a bit hard to resist it when it's being forced upon ye constantly.
I'd prefer the term 'misguided' as opposed to 'idiots'.
Propaganda? Brings me back to the point I made a few weeks ago - you basically say the electorate is coerced in to voting for the other parties, because your party is incapable of getting it's message across. That's your own parties fault, not the "systems".The people who vote for FF, the PDs and your man Barrett (is there much difference between them really?
Yes, the electorate are thick - when the next election comes around, people who said "never again" will still vote FF (or for their right wingers the PD's)because their great grandad/ grandad/ father always did. The major problem with Irish politics is still the fúckin Civil War.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Coming from the "Republican Party"? There's only one party that still plays on the Civil War? Having said that, I did mean to include FG in that as well, as ultimately there is little policy difference between FF and FG (a lot of moral differences IMO, but that's been done to death). The Civil War hasn't never allowed Ireland to develop a "proper" system - the two main parties aren't really that different on policy. They're both right of centre.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
I say the electorate is coerced into voting for parties because of advertising and constant media coverage. The CPI ultimately would like to do that, problem is FF, FG et all have tons more cash, so are better at it. As I've said before, the CPI isn't perfect, but the system is most definately stiffling the party.
Is that really the case? Does everyone here vote for the same parties as their parents? I know I don't.
I don't think ye can blame the success of FF and FG on the Civil War alone. Tons, if not most, countries have had civil wars and get over them. Maybe it's harder for us because of the lack of full independence, but surely people have moved on? (I realise that I'm not in the best position to comment on attitudes of people from the south, so I'm assuming a bit here)
Brendy_eire - Have you ever been to a country that has had a communist system and asked them what they thought of it!
Go visit Romania for gods sake.
Don't want to get into this again, but there has never been a Communist country.
Wouldn't necessarily disagree totally, but I suppose it's what has the stronger emotional pull for people. Is it their left wing tendency's, or the civil war, or a basic need for power for the sake of it?
[QUOTE=brendy_éire]I don't think ye can blame the success of FF and FG on the Civil War alone. Tons, if not most, countries have had civil wars and get over them. Maybe it's harder for us because of the lack of full independence, but surely people have moved on?[QUOTE]
I would contend that most countries that have had civil war based on ethnic backgrounds still vote on those grounds. But also, a hell of a lot of civil wars are based on politics, rather than ours which was over an oath. Maybe Conor can answer why he's FF? Was it his own decision or family background? (For the record my family wouldn't be traditional Labour/left supporters)
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Been reading stuff lately suggesting countries either open or closed. It just happens that most "commies" are closed. Open society would mean freedom of expression, open government etc... The USA could be said to be moving towards a closed society under Dubya.
Should be IQ test or something before people get a vote in Democracy to protect people from themselves.
To digress.....
Did anybody see the people of Mayo sticking up for Beverly Cooper Flynn. I was highly disgusted by it.
1) She was encouraging people to break the law and 2) By helping these people it meant that the ordinary joe soap had to pay more taxs because of this avoidance.
Why isnt this woman going to jail. Surely incitement to break the law should carry a jail term?
This woman is a lawmaker.
Cooper-Flynn will have to be expelled from the whole FF party, no excuses.
I think its actually good to have idiots like Barrett up for election as a good chance to expose them instead of having similar minded people hiding amoung the main political parties.
couldn't agree more.
I call them idiots because any sane right-thinking individual can see right through FF, FG and all the other self-serving parasites in Dail Eireann
also true. If you only have the centre ground it can drift more and more to the extreme without people noticing. A minority voice on either extreme (left or right) keeps people on their toes. IMO, thats the best role for socialism to play in a democratic society- not as a viable alternative, but a "what if" that keeps the government on its toes
Maybe not exactly what I was thinking of. I dunno, I just think that if people see an extremist group for what it is, it puts other parties into conext and makes their decisions more informed
People will tend to vote and follow a certain party just like then follow a football team. My father took me to see City years ago, I became a City fan not because they were his team but because they became my team.
People will be brough up with values and ideals, usually from their parents/family. They will be coloured by this for the rest of their lives. Its just the way things are.
Just myself as an example. In my family one side is Labour/Anyone but FF whilst the other has been Fianna Fáil since its foundation. So I've heard contrasting ideas for years and election time in our household is always great craic. Some how over the years I've decided that FF best repersent my views, I joined the Party. Many things contribute to this, including the fact that they were part of my family tradition, but that would be one of the lesser reasons. Things like Irish Language Policy, Re-Unification of Ireland through the ballot box (without the armalite in the other hand) and certain politicians from FF who I regard as good people to speak on my behalf in the Oireachtas.
As for O'Flynn I dont like him either and a lot of people in FF hold the same view. I must look at his transfers from the last election actually, see where they went. I wonder how many went to FF.
Oh no not them again
The one thing that I don't get is why each party has such a large "core vote". I change my vote willingly at every election, depending upon how I view the parties at that moment in time. This allows me to look at each party and asses their values/policies and decide if this is what I think would be good for the country. Why doesn't everyone re-evaluate the parties at each election? WHy vote FF/FG/SF coz your grandfather did?
Just what is this "mania" you have about Emmett Stagg?
Who did he steal from?
Who did he defraud?
What offence did he commit?
I couldn't give a damn about Flynn and whether she is thrown out of a party or not. Its meaningless. I could get thrown out of the supporters club, will it stop me from going to the Cross or supporting City?
Surely the point here is why isn't there an immediate investigation into whether 2 offences were commited:
1. Perjury
2. Facilitating tax evasion.
Aren't both of these indictable offences?
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