Leeds going down !!

[Éanna]

no, but they were lured into the english game by clubs spending beyond their means. a great day for football

[eoinh]

Would I be right to assume consistency and that you absolutely hate Real Madrid of Spain too?

Conor, Real Madrid are ship shape financially. Leeds indulged in a practice which is termed "FINANCIAL DOPING".

Its not just English clubs which indulge in it but many others like Parma. Funnily enough i started a thread on that yesterday but posters like
4tothefloor or conor never accused me of being anti-italian. Why Not.

The problem seems to be that you can criticise any club teams in the world but not english club teams. If you do criticise english club teams youre anti english.

[eoinh]

Or are are you going to tell me that John O'Flynn is better than Juan Pablo Angel?! Or Smith, or Viduka, or Camara for that matter?

To be honest i dont know. My football watching consists of going to matchs, watching eircom league football on tv, the european champions league, uefa cup matchs on eurosport and eurogoals. Thats enough for me. The players that you mention Juan Pablo Angel Or Smith, or Viduka, or Camara very rarely turn up on my screen because of this. People like Ronaldo, Figo, Zidane, Nedved and Maldini do. John O Flynn isnt as good as any of thesebut i wonder are the players you mention either.

Want to an Aston Villa match last season when i went to Leicester for a few days. It was an awful match to be honest. It was so bad the ref was voted the man of the match.

[tiktok]

Conor, Real Madrid are ship shape financially.

but wasn't that only because the spanish government bought their madrid training facilities for more than it was worth while providing them with land on which to build an alternative facility on the outskirts of Madrid.

i don't know the whole story, but wasn't that deal struck?

[4tothefloor]

Its not just English clubs which indulge in it but many others like Parma. Funnily enough i started a thread on that yesterday but posters like
4tothefloor or conor never accused me of being anti-italian. Why Not.

The problem seems to be that you can criticise any club teams in the world but not english club teams. If you do criticise english club teams youre anti english.

If you look at my first post I explicitly state "the Premiership, La Liga & Seria A" as the leagues that many Irish football fans have an interest in. Sigh... But alot of EL fans have a special disdain for the Premiership as its tv coverage over here has affected the EL down through the years, as has RTE's (shameful) indulgance of it, while offering little or no coverage of the EL itself. Thats not the Premierships fault - blame the bars for promoting Sky Sports like a real match day & RTE for their ignorance. EL is going in the right direction now though. Better stadia, standards, nicer weather, higher profile with players in the int squads etc. In ten years time the league should be a in a healthy state. But I follow Liverpool as well as Limerick, and I couldn't really care less what anyone thinks of that either!

[eoinh]

but wasn't that only because the spanish government bought their madrid training facilities for more than it was worth while providing them with land on which to build an alternative facility on the outskirts of Madrid.

i don't know the whole story, but wasn't that deal struck?

They didnt pay more than it was worth. If I have a mortage for €10,000 but my house is worth €150,000 then technically i may be in dept but in reality my financial situation is fine. Most business and families have overdrafts and loans. Having a car loan for instance does not mean you are in bad financial shape.

As for English football. On Bert Kassies site here is what a spainish contributer says about english football. THIS MAN HAS NO CONNECTION TO THE EIRCOM LEAGUE

"Author: Racing
Date: 12-03-2004, 17:11 i think your wrong. the players individually are not as talented. Spanish segunda B and tercera division has much better talented players than English premiership. Maybe the Spanish are more lazy, the english run and run, which can make up the obvious difference in technical ability. Its brains and skill against brawn and energy.

English players score a goal and they and thier fans think they are a god. No, they have scored a goal. My grandma can score a goal. Thats the problem that english have. Much emotion and passion but very little intellegence and ability. "

He also says "the problem is that a spanish village team like alaves is much better than an overated, overpayed, overhyped english premiership side like southampton"

[4tothefloor]

but wasn't that only because the spanish government bought their madrid training facilities for more than it was worth while providing them with land on which to build an alternative facility on the outskirts of Madrid.

i don't know the whole story, but wasn't that deal struck?

Not only that, but I believe they also gave them 50% of a commercial shopping centre, all profits of which go straight into the Real coffers. Could be wrong on this, but there was definately something to do with a shopping centre as well. I think it was actually built on the site of the old training ground.

[4tothefloor]

They didnt pay more than it was worth. If I have a mortage for €10,000 but my house is worth €150,000 then technically i may be in dept but in reality my financial situation is fine. Most business and families have overdrafts and loans. Having a car loan for instance does not mean you are in bad financial shape.

As for English football. On Bert Kassies site here is what a spainish contributer says about english football. THIS MAN HAS NO CONNECTION TO THE EIRCOM LEAGUE

"Author: Racing
Date: 12-03-2004, 17:11 i think your wrong. the players individually are not as talented. Spanish segunda B and tercera division has much better talented players than English premiership. Maybe the Spanish are more lazy, the english run and run, which can make up the obvious difference in technical ability. Its brains and skill against brawn and energy.

English players score a goal and they and thier fans think they are a god. No, they have scored a goal. My grandma can score a goal. Thats the problem that english have. Much emotion and passion but very little intellegence and ability. "

He also says "the problem is that a spanish village team like alaves is much better than an overated, overpayed, overhyped english premiership side like southampton"

Thats just some Spanish Joe Average's opinion. So what? If the Spanish are so good, why is it then that the only team that wins european trophies from La Liga is Real Madrid? A team made up of, in the majority, non Spanish players?! Look at Deportivo last night, beaten by Porto. The Portuguese league is hardly the best in the world now, is it? And shock, shock, horror should Chelsea make it into the CL final tonight....ahead of the Spaniards! Spain are also crap at every single championship finals that they reach. Plus, if you're saying that the English game is so bad, what does that say about the EL and Irish football?! We play exactly the same style and same way. Fair dues to you for supporting a league that you obviously think is rubbish

[pete]

We all slag off english football & the barstoolers but IMO no one hear can say they have zero interest in it. If you watch football its unlikelyu you;ll avoid a bit of english football here 'n there...

btw eventhough only 1 goal from a penalty IMO Deportivo v Porto was a great match last night.

[eoinh]

Look at Deportivo last night, beaten by Porto. The Portuguese league is hardly the best in the world now, is it ?

The point of the champions league is to find the continents best club not the best league. Probably the best way to measure leagues is by the co-efficiency tables and spain is way ahead here. Their results over all their clubs is far ahead of everybody.

Your point about Chelsea - well they wont get to the final believe me. They simply arent good enough.

As for the spainish national team. Spainairds in many regions simply arent interested in how the national team does. Spain is too fragmented a country for that. We were talking about club teams not national teams. England dont do too well at major championships either.

We recently had a Real Madrid v Valencia champions league final. Not even the most sky-sports influnenced junkie could imagine an all england final in the near future. For someone who says they are interested in Italian, english and Spianish football you seem to get evry tetch when i knock english football. No murmur of discontent when i accused Italian clubs of financial doping.

[NeilMcD]

I am just wondering does someone who only supports a league of Ireland team and has contempt for people who support foreign teams such as man utd and liverpool and celtic and barcelona bring this view point to other walks of life such as music.

I ama music fan and i like the Frames,U2, David Kitt, Bell X 1 but I also like non irish bands such as the Beatles, Radiohead etc. Now it is the very same as Liking football teams both at home and abroad. Both are part of our culture. So the next time an EL fan starts to give out or pontificate about people supporting foreign teams they should take a good look at their record collection and see do they have any Foreign artists in it.

[tiktok]

And shock, shock, horror should Chelsea make it into the CL final tonight....ahead of the Spaniards!

come on, are you saying so that if Monaco get through that the French league is superior to the English (and the Spanish and Italian) league. That's not how it works.

[tiktok]

I am a music fan and i like the Frames,U2, David Kitt, Bell X 1 but I also like non irish bands such as the Beatles, Radiohead etc.

but that's not the issue. I think the majority of people actually hate the coverage of English football rather than the football itself. Sky and Rupert Murdoch would rate as greater villains than the FA and Adam Crozier.

When you next look at your record collection, do you see Kylie, Britney and Usher in there? because these are the artists that are forced down our throats by the media and denying the domestic artists places in the charts.

It's not quality product from abroad that's the problem for either music or football, it's the irish media and general public's laziness in buying into american and english product and the associated bells and whistles rather than getting off their behinds and heading to an EL ground (or a gig for that matter).

[NeilMcD]

yes i love going to both El games and local gigs, but i have realised that is me and i have no right to tell others what is good for them or whatever. They have the civil right to choose whatever they want to do and i do not have the right to look down upon them as treat them as some lesser people. If i go to a frames gig or i go to a singer songwriter in town does that make me more of a music fan then someone who goes to see britney in the point. NO it doesnt as we have both gone to one gig that is all. I think people should be less bitter about football and music and accept that people prefer certain things. However encouragement to go to EL games or local gigs should be welcomed. I have convinced lots of people to go to gigs , to travel with Ireland etc etc and they all thank me for it, I think a positive attitude shoudl be adopted rather than a condascending and self righteous tone which some people on this forum do have about El football.

[eoinh]

bring this view point to other walks of life such as music.

Aw, come on. There is no way you can measure how good music is. Whos better The Beatles or the stones?

Football can be measured. The best team wins the league. Cork City are my citys representative in the footballing world. They can be as good or as crap as the best or worst in the world. If more people support them they can get better. No matter how many people come and watch me play a guitar i would still be crap. Give me a million pounds and i would still be crap.

[tiktok]

not really where i was going with that Neil, i'm all for 'to each his own'. For the record, I support Man united as well as CCFC and have a soft spot for Barca and Inter Milan.

I'm not saying that El fans (or Frames fans) are better than anybody else, just that the frustration shown by many is understandable. These people aren't competing with other fans to get their viewpoint across; instead they're competing with the media, for whom it's easier to buy in a story off the wire about Britney's 24 hour marraige than it is to send a reviewer out to a gig. They'd prefer to actually report the circus that follows celebrity rather than on the music itself, much the same with the Premiership.

[4tothefloor]

come on, are you saying so that if Monaco get through that the French league is superior to the English (and the Spanish and Italian) league. That's not how it works.

Thats not what I was saying! I was merely highlighting eoinh's ridiculous arguement. Read the bloody thing! And while we're at it, Marseille have beaten Liverpool in the UEFA, and will probably follow that up by beating Newcastle. If Monaco do win and get through, there's not much the Premiership can say against the French league, is there? Some of the best footballers in the world are from France at the moment, which is also worth remembering.

To get back to the point, there's nothing wrong with following\liking\loving foreign football. I support Liverpool, passionately, but I also support my EL club Limerick, and go to most of the Ireland international games. Nothing wrong with that. (especially for eoinh: this is why I defend English club football, because I support an English club. I love the premiership. This is the 3rd time i've said I support Liverpool, hopefully you'll make the connection this time )

[4tothefloor]

not really where i was going with that Neil, i'm all for 'to each his own'. For the record, I support Man united as well as CCFC and have a soft spot for Barca and Inter Milan.

I'm not saying that El fans (or Frames fans) are better than anybody else, just that the frustration shown by many is understandable. These people aren't competing with other fans to get their viewpoint across; instead they're competing with the media, for whom it's easier to buy in a story off the wire about Britney's 24 hour marraige than it is to send a reviewer out to a gig. They'd prefer to actually report the circus that follows celebrity rather than on the music itself, much the same with the Premiership.

Lets get a spin doctor into every EL club then. A bit of controversey regarding sex\drugs\booze\fights\roasting at some of the rural EL clubs should do the trick. It'll shake things up a bit and get all the gossip-ers to the games. Hey presto, we have a vibrant, front-page, back-page league

[NeilMcD]

Aw, come on. There is no way you can measure how good music is. Whos better The Beatles or the stones?

Football can be measured. The best team wins the league. Cork City are my citys representative in the footballing world. They can be as good or as crap as the best or worst in the world. If more people support them they can get better. No matter how many people come and watch me play a guitar i would still be crap. Give me a million pounds and i would still be crap.

yes i knwo you can measure who is the best team but can you say that goig to an EL game makes your more of a supporter then someone who goes to Old Trafford every week. Thats the point i was makeing and why i used the analogy. If somone out there only supports cork city and supports local music and does nto buy foreign music or listen to well then they have a consistent argument. However if they only keep this indigenous outlook to football only, my point is that it is not consistent with the rest of their life and therefore is hypocritical and they should maybe consider that next time they slag someone off for going to a man utd game or liverpool or whoever it is.

[Beavis]

I support Man united as well as CCFC and have a soft spot for Barca and Inter Milan.

The problem with supporting teams which you don't have connection to or decent knowledge of the culture associated with the club,is that you don't know what you could be buying into.Take Inter Milan,Paul Ince got terrible rascist abuse from the Inter fans during his time in Italy.The Nerazzuri are fascists.Is that the type of thing you'd want to be associated with?

Hate to see people wearing Lazio gear.I presume they don't know what it represents and for the same reason I'd never buy a jersey from South America or Europe becuase you don't know who you could be offending just by sporting it....