General promotion/media discussion (split from the attendances thread)

[dcfcsteve]

Local media is more important, and needs to be the focal point of advertising, in order to avoid hypocrisy in how we attract supporters.

Imagine RTÉ publicised the league like Sky does for the Barclays Premier League, blowing it out of proportion and overhyping every Premier Division game?

Now imagine all that RTÉ Sport cared about was who won the Airtricity League, thereby sucking the public into the epic title race between (over-done Dublin League reference) Bohs, Shams, Fingal and Pats.

And imagine they showed every Champions' League and Europa League qualifier with hours of build-up and analysis, with Gary Twigg and Paddy Madden plastered across advertising billboards and hired to do TV ads and stuff like that.

Is anyone here telling me that the country wouldn't just become split, from Cork to Donegal, between 'fans' of Rovers and Bohs, just based on the same arbitrary 'they win more, I like them,' arguments?

I know I, as a Limerick fan, wouldn't like some randomer from Carlow attaching himself to any of Limerick's future successes and claiming to be as close to the club as me, attending Jackman week in week out.

Sure, we'd be getting their money in jersey sales and stuff, but I'd rather, using the local media, to create a local buzz about the team, and make the league about what we're saying here every day - your local team.

(Not that such fanatacism is ever gonna spring up about the LOI anyway . . .)

There is a section within Irish football who would subconsciously hate it if "their" league ever became successful/popular. Because that would change everything utterly.

You've just made it conscious.....

[Eminence Grise]

It’s dawned on me, reading some of the comments here and on other threads, that the fundamental problem the league has regarding its reputation is that it’s utterly disunited.

A stable national league in any other country is one where the clubs have bought into what the league stands for, and while that leaves room for rivalries and disagreement, these are recognised as being second to a common good – ownership regulations in the Bundesliga, complete overhaul of the Norwegian league over a decade ago, etc. Here, you would be forgiven for thinking we have 22 feudal vassals who despise their ineffectual overlord, and each other; 22 petty underlings who are too busy grubbing around fire-fighting on their own patch, and cackling when their neighbour’s catches light, to do anything to remedy their lot.

You can’t market disharmony.
You can’t market negativity.
You can’t market bout after bout of schadenfraude as club after club goes to the wall.
You can’t market a history of days-that-never-were when every club got 20,000 through the turnstiles, or a history of inglorious failure. I don’t care which club’s director was worse than another club’s director. I don’t care who shamed the league most in the past. The best service that can be done for the reputation of our clubs and league is to make sure nobody like them ever gets their claws into one of our clubs again. That’s something you can market.

Clubs have to wake up and realise that there’s one boat: 10 berths in first class, 12 in second, a few hardy souls in steerage, and a lot gone overboard to the sharks. It’s long past time everybody rowed in the same direction.


Just saw dcfcsteve's post as I refreshed the page: there's an eloquent truth in the simplicity of the statement.

[John83]

It's not eloquent; it's trite. There are negative consequences to popularity and many people would resent those negatives were they to appear. In other news, water is still wet and there are scumbags who follow Rovers.

[Eminence Grise]

It's not eloquent; it's trite. There are negative consequences to popularity and many people would resent those negatives were they to appear. In other news, water is still wet and there are scumbags who follow Rovers.

The prosecution rests, M'Lud.

[bullit]

This leauge is like Last team standing,Wins!!!

[dcfcsteve]

It's not eloquent; it's trite. There are negative consequences to popularity and many people would resent those negatives were they to appear. In other news, water is still wet and there are scumbags who follow Rovers.

It depends on your definition of "negative" though.

A huge increase in support would generally be considered a positive thing for the league. But we all know that there would still be the odd misery sitting in the corner bemoaning all these johnny come lately's at their club and muttering 'where were you when we played St Francis ?' under their breath.

There are some supporters who feel comfortable with the mediocrity of our league and subconsciously wouldn't want to share it - and not just for good reasons.

If you find that trite, so be it.

[bennocelt]

Agree with Ped Ped, MUST be more coverage of the league on TV and in the national press. The FAI should get their finger out and do as much as they can for the league, not fobbing it off all the time.
The main sports news should have LOI news over any rubbish that is going on across the water. Its simply not true to say that the public influence tv, etc. The public are stupid, they can be forced to change, they are easily mended. They just follow band waagons and trends that are created by the media. Imagine if it became cool to follow a LOI team? (some kind of promotion maybe?)

Anyway Irish people are not really into football. See Luton had over 6,000 for their game against Hayes (my team!!!) the other day. Jesus, for a blue square game!!!!!!
(By the way the standard of football is lower than both divisions in the LOI)

[Spudulika]

What Eminence has stated is something that I was tackled for a couple of weeks ago, by fans of other clubs (this was regarding Bohs) laughing at anotehr's misfortune. Sure there will always be a "well, they got what they deserve", but underneath the majority of league goers I've found a bitterness and desire to remain "unique". As if watching club after club go through hell, and players lose wages, is some sort of badge of honour. It may well be the case as the problem centres aroudn the fact that LOI ranks below the 3 main sports in the country in terms of numbers and is slipping back yearly. Yet what binds us is killing the game and league - it has always been the case that senior clubs want to control their own destiny, when they have money, and if not, then it's someone elses fault/problem. There is a future for a sustainable, professional and successful league in Ireland and all it takes is for a two way unity to take hold. Can't see it happening, and what will be will be.

[Dodge]

Maybe thats what you get on the internet or watching from afar but I find that actually at games, and living and working with fans of other clubs its the complete opposite.

While many here take potshots and take most opportunities to poke fin at rival fans, I don't know too many fans who genuinely want other clubs to fail. You only have to look at the genuine goodwill towards club who develop their ground or get a good result in Europe. I'm not saying there aren't fans of all clubs who'll delight in the problems facing their rivals, but again, the vast majority are only too aware that we're all in the same boat. In fact, fans of practically every club in the country have had their club go close ot the wall.

[ped_ped]

There is a section within Irish football who would subconsciously hate it if "their" league ever became successful/popular. Because that would change everything utterly.

You've just made it conscious.....

No, I actually do want a succesful league

I just think, regarding marketing (the topic of this thread), local media is more important than national media to nurture local support and strong gates.

Not that I disagree with your point

[Spudulika]

Maybe thats what you get on the internet or watching from afar but I find that actually at games, and living and working with fans of other clubs its the complete opposite.

While many here take potshots and take most opportunities to poke fin at rival fans, I don't know too many fans who genuinely want other clubs to fail. You only have to look at the genuine goodwill towards club who develop their ground or get a good result in Europe. I'm not saying there aren't fans of all clubs who'll delight in the problems facing their rivals, but again, the vast majority are only too aware that we're all in the same boat. In fact, fans of practically every club in the country have had their club go close ot the wall.

Over 30 years of attending games and mixing with fans of other clubs helps form such an opinion, so taking a side swipe and putting the "real fans are different" attitude on is something that doesn't wash I'm afraid Dodge. Of course there is goodwill when things are going well, but when other clubs get a new ground.....em, like Tallaght? Forgive me but just a few months back at a LOI ground that needs to be razed and rebuilt, I heard die hards wishing ill on the club and that it was all a disgrace. It might have been a minority, but until you poll everyone nothing is for sure.

And the contradiction is there in your own words - fans of all clubs who'll delight in the problems facing their rivals. It can't be - we're all in this together, then sniggering up a sleeve, or enjoying being cast in the role of a social outsider because you follow your own local club instead of being a "barstooler". The only wya to solve the problem is fom bottom up and bottom down overhauling - but which comes first?

[Lim till i die]

Here, you would be forgiven for thinking we have 22 feudal vassals who despise their ineffectual overlord

John Delaney and the FAI control the clubs 1000000%

You can’t market disharmony.
You can’t market negativity.
You can’t market bout after bout of schadenfraude as club after club goes to the wall.

This right here is why Celtic and Rangers both failed and Partick Thistle became the dominant force in Glasgow football.

[Dodge]

The only wya to solve the problem is fom bottom up and bottom down overhauling - but which comes first?

Orn you could top worrying about people who won't come to games and just enjoy whats there. Seriously, if all LOI clubs only ever manage to get 500 people at the game, so what? Just carry on paying our way and let the people who actually do bother with the games enjoy them

FAr, far, far toom mcuh bull**** spoken on here about the "ills of the game". most people just go to watch a bit of football. When team do well, they get more, when they're rubbish they get less.

Pain in my face of talk of overhauls when there isn't a single penny to spare in Irish football

[Eminence Grise]

John Delaney and the FAI control the clubs 1000000%


This right here is why Celtic and Rangers both failed and Partick Thistle became the dominant force in Glasgow football.

Perhaps you’ve misinterpreted my post.

The FAI and Delaney do control the clubs. So we agree on that much…. I implied that the FAI, as the overlord, was not as effective as it should be for those whose protection and development are its responsibility.

(Maybe I’m too much into feudalism, but I’ve always been fascinated by it - it’s like all my First Arts lectures are coming back to me!)

As for Rangers and Celtic, scale might have had something to do with their successes. I don’t recall an era, with the exception of the present and their desire to join the EPL, where both clubs worked against their league (so, no disharmony – although you could possibly argue that the SPL’s current decline coincides with the start of this secessionism). Moreover, as sectarianism and bigotry became less socially acceptable, both clubs took steps to address the problems they had (so tackling negativity). And I’m unaware of any schadenfreude from the Old Firm over the demise of other Scottish league clubs.

As for Partick fans, I’d guess that they see themselves as distinct to the Old Firm, and all the better for it. Just as Limerick fans believe in their club, warts and all.

[Macy]

Plenty of Irish people follow the epl - my experience of going there is of fans not mixing and not being allowed to mix. That isn't the case here, for all the "disunity". I'd have no fear of issues walking into a pub containing supporters of any team in this league as an opposition supporter, and some of my best nights associated with Longford have been in other clubs "home" bars, for example.

btw, to get back on topic - a very simple thing that could be done is insisting the FAI Cup draws go back on the 6.1 news, rather than being shown to the converted as they've been since the MNS sop started. Double edged sword - gets the cup out there to a wider audience and gives them a chance to plug MNS when they say "further coverage and reaction to the draw at 7pm on RTE2".

[dcfcsteve]

btw, to get back on topic - a very simple thing that could be done is insisting the FAI Cup draws go back on the 6.1 news, rather than being shown to the converted as they've been since the MNS sop started. Double edged sword - gets the cup out there to a wider audience and gives them a chance to plug MNS when they say "further coverage and reaction to the draw at 7pm on RTE2".

Good idea there Macy.

I wonder if RTE's News Editor was keen/happy to get rid of the draw though. Especilaly for the earlier rounds, it can take up a good chunk of their beloved main news show, so MNS might have provided a good reason for them to lobby to have it moved.

Though if it's part of the FAI's deal with RTE then the NE would obviously have no say

[bingoballs]

Morning Ireland sports section again this morning and there was cricket, golf, tennis, gah hockey and finally, as an afterthought, a brief mention of the LOI. I complained to RTE last week as there was no mention of the FAI cup games at all on the same programme last friday. Maybe there is little appetite to find out about the league in Ireland but there is massive potential for expansion.
Not that long ago crowds of over 20,000 fans were not unheard of at league and cup ties, what is the difference between now and then when most clubs in the league today would be happy to have 10% of that gate?
Anyone who doesn't believe that the media lead and the punters follow is being hoodwinked in my opinion. The English general election is a perfect example of this when Rupert Murdock told all the top people in his different publications and agencies the outcome he wanted and instructed them to get it. I honestly believe there is a general snobbery amongst the Irish press towards the LOI and the coverage our league gets reflects this. How many times have you seen a picture of a player from the LOI in a paper and the wrong name underneath? And Steve, regardless of any online editions, the best coverage of the league is still the Mirror, an English publication.
No matter what anyone says, I firmly believe that the more column inches and airtime will result in a greater interest being generated. The FAI need to tackle this and use their clout to try and sell the league to the masses via the media. As I am writing this Keith Fahy has just scored for Ireland. How will it be reported in the media tomorrow, Biirmingham midfielder or former Saint Pats and LOI star?

[Spudulika]

Orn you could top worrying about people who won't come to games and just enjoy whats there. Seriously, if all LOI clubs only ever manage to get 500 people at the game, so what? Just carry on paying our way and let the people who actually do bother with the games enjoy them

FAr, far, far toom mcuh bull**** spoken on here about the "ills of the game". most people just go to watch a bit of football. When team do well, they get more, when they're rubbish they get less.

Pain in my face of talk of overhauls when there isn't a single penny to spare in Irish football

Well, maybe for some it's better to just leave it all as it is, let money flow in and out and continue walking backwards. I don't know if you're wumming, but I don't think there's a person who's heart and head is in the LOI who doesn't see that some small changes would improve the situation massively. Clubs being run professionally for a start, players getting paid etc. If it were simply a case of no money to spare to improve the LOI then that would be fine, though it's not in the equation. There are funds to be drawn upon from a number of sources (successfully done in other countries) if only there was a bit of initiative from the top and a push from the bottom. However, it could well be best to leave it rot as it is, maybe it's just about a ball being kicked than anything else, which is in essence all it is.

Bingoballs, did you get a response as to why there was a lack of reportage? It's not totally uncommon but teh first I've heard that nothing was done after games the night before.

[ger121]

This was a great idea to promote lower league football in England. Shame something similar wouldn't work here to get people into a LOI match for a night.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8973589.stm

[dcfcsteve]

This was a great idea to promote lower league football in England. Shame something similar wouldn't work here to get people into a LOI match for a night.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8973589.stm

Great idea.

I think something similar to this could work in the LOI, but it would need to have some sort of 'hook' behind it as we don't have the whole 'no Premier games' day issue here as they do in England.

It would rely on novelty though, and would really need to get rolling as a bandwagon before people got involved. The big question is - how to get it started ?

The FAI could play a big role in something like this. With Internationals now on a Friday, pick one , switch the league games to a Saturday, and then use the international players as part of an effort to promote the idea of going to see your local team the next day. Doyle and Fahey in particular would be great to use in an ad. The FAI could even cajole/persuade a few of the players to take in games themselves as part of it all. Even if they only relied on trying to persuade some of the 50,000 at an international to go, a 1% success rate (not unreasonable) would be noticeable.

There's a gem of an idea worth trying there. But I doubt the FAI would be bothered.