Shane Ferguson

[Gather round]

But it'd be a low business if he walked out on the IFA now -not that I expect him to

There'll still be plenty from both sides of the community turning out for the IFA, regardless of the doom prophets who make this phenomenon out to be something new, and there'll still be the odd player from either side of the community who turns south

Agreed on both counts.

He has, in fairness, made a good point, though not the one he thought he was making. Just because someone is called Ferguson, or is from Larne, or drinks Tennants, or played rugby at school, or whatever else, we shouldn't be treating them any differently

No, you should be treating them differently if they've already played for Northern Ireland.

I would argue we should be making a particular effort with the protestant lads, and ladies (No reason whover takes over from Noel King shouldn't benefit as much as anyone else - might be worth giving the job to a northerner actually)

Why would you argue that? Northern Ireland probably isn't the best/ biggest source of players from outside the country: there are likely to be more in England, unlikely to play for them and thus less likely to cause a fuss if they declare for the South. Of course I realise that this is a welcome PR bonus for the FAI, and an enjoyable running gag on here. Until everyone gets bored, there'll be a speculative thread about every NI youth prospect/ Englishman with plauslbly Gaelic-sounding name etc. etc.

There is a natural limit to the benefit of reaching out to the fourth green field and all that. It's largely about numbers and scale. There are obviously only 11 places in any team, so not all decent players will get caps, even at youth level. While NI's smaller size and thus player pool mean we're more likely to award full caps early. I doubt Staunton (or Trap, or Kerr, or McCarthy) would have put in the 18 year old Jonny Evans out of position against Spain, say.

As for Darron Gibson or family, potentially being in the DUP ( ), not sure you would find too many of his surname in that fraternity

Gibson is a common Prod/ Unionist surname in NI, as Lionel suggested. I knew quite a few at school, for example.

Though would go more with Btw's stance that we offer a more realistic chance of making Finals (or just missing out!), especially in the light of the uncompromising attitude of the more paranoid about freedom of choice....

I doubt it has much to do with either. These guys want to play for the Republic because they support you. Although in any given tournament, NI will start less likely to qualify than the South, it's the difference between hardly ever and slightly less so in recent memory. And even if your boys (or ours) put together another 80s/ early 90s squad that challenges regularly, that will simply mean that it's stronger and thus more difficult to get into.

Until very, very recently the IFA made absolutely no effort to appeal to the large non unionist minority in Northern Ireland

Harsh on the IFA and NI fans, YI. Football for All is long- and well-established.

in fact it's symbolism, anthem and a large section of it's support would actively have discouraged such support from this minority (and still do to a point)

Rather a roundabout argument this. Its "symbolism" is largely that it exists, therefore those who think it shouldn't will be discouraged from it. Look through similar threads in the index, and you'll see that many of the NI-based Republic fans have said repeatedly that the flag/ anthem/ stadium location/ muriels etc. etc. are not important in their lack of support for NI. It's because they support the South.

Seriously do you really think many Catholic or Nationalist children growing up in NI would have been attracted in any way to supporting the NI team after witnessing the sectarian abuse in Windsor in 93 thrown at the ROI team and it's fans?

I think nationalist kids are attracted to supporting the Republic because broadly that's what nationalist kids before them did for generations. Fine. If some of them want to support NI as well or instead, equally fine. Whule not condoning any intimidation at that game 17 years ago I doubt it's the factor you suggest.

Of course in the past many Catholic and/or Nationalist players born in the North that may have felt little association with the NI team may still have chosen to play for them

Of course this might be just vague speculation on your part. Nobody forces anyone to play international football. So I think the default assumption is that anyone who does is proud to.

as there was little appeal in switching to the ROI team at the time due to the controversy and possible unpleasant consequences in a personal sense that such a decision may have generated

There's not much evidence for this, is there? Alan Kernaghan got some stick from the terraces, but nothing he wouldn't have been used to in club football.

What unpleasantness were you thinking of? Digs in the press? Photoshopped banners (or the old tech equivalent)? Kneecappings in the IFA's romper room?

and let's also not forget that NI had been, up until that point, by far the more succesful of the two teams in International competitions

I think you flatter us. In the long-term, we've had one blue period from 1980-86; yours more recent and slightly longer-standing from 1986-1994. Both before and since we've both been pretty mediocre.

As for throwing that old sectarian argument into the mix you'll need to have your own house in order for a long time first before bringing that elephant into the proverbial room

If the FAI were sectarian (they aren't), it would be entirely reasonable for the IFA like anyone else to criticise, whatever their own faults. And vice-versa.

you'd find it highly unlikely that many protestants born in Wicklow or Dublin would be eager to switch to play for the Northern Ireland if they were involved in the ROI youth setup so I think the FAI (and Irish state as a whole I might add) have done quite well in integrating the state's religious minorities into it's framework since it's existence thank you very much

You're welcome. As a (non) religious minority member (atheist) who lived in the Republic of Ireland, I had no difficulty whatever in integrating into the framework. Yes, the pubs oddly closed for an hour every lunchtime and you couldn't turn on the TV news without seeing some bloke with a halo going Bong!, but those were minor quirs and hardly an incovenience. That said, even in the early 80s it was widely accepted that the RC Church was a) declining in influence and b) supported in its institutional corruption by the state. All parts of a wider issue, of course.

The basic difference is that unionists in the South were a small minority who accepted the Free State/ Republic; nationalists in NI a larger one who didn't.

If a kid in Wicklow (or anywhere) is dually qualified for the Republic and NI or anyone else, there are obvious reasons repeatedly detailed why he might choose the other. I wouldn't get too het up about it.

[Stuttgart88]

This reminds me of a conspiracy theory some colleagues tried to perpetuate at work in Dublin in the early 90s, when it was thought a disproportionately large share of, if not all, the company's directors were protestant. One guy came in one morning excited to share the nugget of crucial information he had just discovered: director X's son plays cricket for Trinity! He must be protestant. My mate replied "yes, but X's sister is a nun!". I think the conspiracy theory ended there.

[seanfhear]

This reminds me of a conspiracy theory some colleagues tried to perpetuate at work in Dublin in the early 90s, when it was thought a disproportionately large share of, if not all, the company's directors were protestant. One guy came in one morning excited to share the nugget of crucial information he had just discovered: director X's son plays cricket for Trinity! He must be protestant. My mate replied "yes, but X's sister is a nun!". I think the conspiracy theory ended there.

Nun or no nun, we want you to play for Ireland. All are welcome.

[Lionel Ritchie]

This reminds me of a conspiracy theory some colleagues tried to perpetuate at work in Dublin in the early 90s, when it was thought a disproportionately large share of, if not all, the company's directors were protestant. One guy came in one morning excited to share the nugget of crucial information he had just discovered: director X's son plays cricket for Trinity! He must be protestant. My mate replied "yes, but X's sister is a nun!". I think the conspiracy theory ended there.

Perhaps they were Anglicans. Though they're just 'Diet-Catholics' really aren't they.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No, you should be treating them differently if they've already played for Northern Ireland.

But with the North or anyone else, they're eligible until they've played one competitive game as defined by FIFA/DI/Pred above.100 friendly caps and they can still switch....
Can't believe this tired mantra is still being put forward by people, contrary to the definition.

Why would you argue that? Northern Ireland probably isn't the best/ biggest source of players from outside the country: there are likely to be more in England, unlikely to play for them and thus less likely to cause a fuss if they declare for the South.

It is now. Given its entire male population are eligible!!! Well bar around 200 people, most of whom no longer live there anyway.

The only 'fuss' about this is made by the paranoid.
Surely they should want people who actually want to play rather than forcing nationalists, catholics and anyone who's more enlightened to play for their dubious team. And by the 'South', do you mean Korea??


And yes, most Irish prods, as in C. Of I. are indeed 'Diet-RC'.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The basic difference is that unionists in the South were a small minority who accepted the Free State/ Republic; nationalists in NI a larger one who didn't.

Except 'unionists' in the Ireland to which you refer(wrongly) tend to be defined more by a notional economic status (as in believing they're 'better off' with the Brits), rather than having anything to do with religion. For which I would have some sympathy.

Virtually all of the C Of I. people I know are more than happy living with a notional Catholic majority(diminishing by the day). And their paranoid equivalents up North and elsewhere forget the long history of Irish Protestants being involved
in the struggles of Irish nationalism.
Unfortunately the Scots who planted themselves in the North were not so open-minded....

[Gather round]

Can't believe this tired mantra is still being put forward by people, contrary to the definition

Says the man who posts the same tired old mantra 100-200 times on every extended NI thread

It is now. Given its entire male population are eligible!!! Well bar around 200 people, most of whom no longer live there anyway

I know they're eligible; so is anyone in England, Germany or Timbuktu with an Irish granny. England will remain your largest source of players from outside the Republic largely because it's about 30 times more populous than NI.

The only 'fuss' about this is made by the paranoid

I'm arguing it (no more fussily than you) because I think playing international football for one country should prevent you then playing for another. Quite simple really.

Surely they should want people who actually want to play rather than forcing nationalists, catholics and anyone who's more enlightened to play for their dubious team

We want people who have already played for NI to continue to play for NI. No-one is forcing anyone to play. Stop posting cartoon Provo nonsense.

Except 'unionists' in the Ireland to which you refer(wrongly) tend to be defined more by a notional economic status (as in believing they're 'better off' with the Brits), rather than having anything to do with religion. For which I would have some sympathy

I'm sure they're delighted with your sympathy, but how is it relevant to what I said? I didn't mention religion, merely recognising that a) there were unionists in what became the Free State, but b) they broadly accepted it.

Virtually all of the C Of I. people I know are more than happy living with a notional Catholic majority(diminishing by the day)

That's nice for them.

And their paranoid equivalents up North and elsewhere forget the long history of Irish Protestants being involved
in the struggles of Irish nationalism. Unfortunately the Scots who planted themselves in the North were not so open-minded....

I think not. We learned about them at school, and there are regular TV docs etc.

Anyway, shouldn't you be packing for Yerevan? A whole new market for your ramblings. PS probably best not to sing Turkish Song of the Damned in any kara-uke bars.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Says the man who posts the same tired old mantra 100-200 times on every extended NI thread.

Rather more an Information service for the Ignorant and the paranoid with amnesia!
Though you doo need to learn to count. As it's more like 10-20 times in total

England will remain your largest source of players from outside the Republic largely because it's about 30 times more populous than NI.

Hmm, you're saying the whole population of England can play for Ireland? Yeah, right....
There's a good few who can't even play for their host country FFS.

I'm arguing it (no more fussily than you) because I think playing international football for one country should prevent you then playing for another.

Except FIFA/UEFA/The CAS don't agree.... And sounds incredibly pompous(as usual) to think you know better.
Lol.

Stop posting cartoon Provo nonsense.

Tom & Gerry??
No-one knows WTF yer on about. Except it does highlight paranoia!

That's nice for them.

It's more relevant because they actually know.

We learned about them at school, and there are regular TV docs etc.

Yeah like the British state and certain Northern prods make even the slightest effort to acknowledge. It's contrary to their whole agenda.

[Predator]

your ignorance knows no bounds.

Says the guy who struggled valiantly to (mis)understand FIFA's statutes regarding national team eligibility even after they had been explained in excruciating detail. This is the same guy who still fails to grasp the fairly basic concept of nationality/citizenship and what that entails.

Unlike Northern Ireland, as one can only play for the RoI with Irish citizenship, it'd be pretty difficult to expect those who don't want to make a political statement to do so.

Slow down. Your frenzied posts don't make sense.

Also would threaten the FAI's pretence that all they do is wait beside a phone, as Jonny Evans' public statements proved.

Can you take it beyond weak speculation and prove that the FAI were actively pursuing players from the north? Lazily claiming that Liam Brady or John Delaney are the 'child-catchers' doesn't quite cut it. Even so, what's the problem? These players are eligible and that is absolutely unequivocal; any ambiguity was cleared up in the CAS case that the IFA paid for. As such, the FAI would be entirely justified in pursuing players born in the north.

Regarding Jonny Evans' supposed 'public statements', can you tell us more about that, or is this another one of your smokescreens?

Nah, better to concentrate on the young nationalists, now where's my big book of Catholic-sounding names?

Boo hoo. Your nonsense is almost as amusing as it is tiresome. I don't like to subscribe to ridiculous notions, but you can if that is your preference. I prefer to think that the FAI, like the IFA will (hopefully) select the best players who are eligible and, most importantly, willing to play.

[Gather round]

Rather more an Information service for the Ignorant and the paranoid with amnesia! Though you doo need to learn to count. As it's more like 10-20 times in total

Not so. On the current Eligibility thread, you've posted 192 times, in almost every case just wittering inanely about paranoia, planters, anecdotage which you've made up or imagined and rank-pulling based on your claimed expertise. Why don't you just get a room with FHTB and shout at each other?

Hmm, you're saying the whole population of England can play for Ireland? Yeah, right....There's a good few who can't even play for their host country FFS

No, I'm saying that the large majority of the Republic of Ireland's internationals from outside the country are likely to be from England, as they are now. Do try and read what others post before you go off on one?

Except FIFA/UEFA/The CAS don't agree.... And sounds incredibly pompous(as usual) to think you know better.
Lol

It's not in the least pompous to disagree with FIFA and UEFA, as the FAI and a large proportion of your fans were doing hysterically at the end of last year and since.

Tom & Gerry??

Aye, O'Fee and Adams will do as your inspirations, I suppose.

No-one knows WTF yer on about. Except it does highlight paranoia!

I think other readers- and the mods who've kicked you off this and other forums on multiple occasions- know well enough, actually. They can't all be paranoid.

It's more relevant because they actually know

They know what? Not sure what point you're making here: I'm merely saying that there were unionists in what became the Free State, then broadly accepted it. Probably largely due to their small number.

Yeah like the British state and certain Northern prods make even the slightest effort to acknowledge. It's contrary to their whole agenda

I've just acknowledged it. I, like all my contemporaries learned about it at. Kids nowadays will see it covered in the media regularly. It doesn't really even contradict any ideology, merely acknowledging that there have long been both unionists and nationalists, or similar earlier groups.

[geysir]

I'm arguing it (no more fussily than you) because I think playing international football for one country should prevent you then playing for another. Quite simple really.

Simple but foolish
Playing international football does bind a player, if it is at competitive level. It just so happens that dual nationals have a choice until they are capped at senior competitive level.
Your opinion has been noted about 500 times already. Quite frankly it appears that it is a rigid dogma, cocooned from life.
It just so happens that choice has been in the rules since the dawn of international football and pretty much every international sport has rules allowing dual national to choose which country they want to represent even after they have represented one at youth level.

[Gather round]

Simple but foolish

Evening to you too, Ice boy.

Your opinion has been noted about 500 times already. Quite frankly it appears that it is a rigid dogma, cocooned from life

If you're bored by my repeated opinion, ignore it. Better still, don't post your own ponderous self-importance ten times as often. Any more hot air and your igloo might melt.

It just so happens that choice has been in the rules since the dawn of international football and pretty much every international sport has rules allowing dual national to choose which country they want to represent even after they have represented one at youth level

I know. Have a biscuit.

[ArdeeBhoy]

On the current Eligibility thread, you've posted 192 times, in almost every case just wittering inanely about paranoia, planters, anecdotage which you've made up or imagined and rank-pulling based on your claimed expertise. Why don't you just get a room with FHTB and shout at each other?

Except that's just your 'opinion'. And of the unionist mindset that automatically and arrogantly thinks it's always right.
Besides the Hypocrisy of those criticisms, which read like yer cv on here. As for 'Fenian Hater, True Bigot' he just is a more concentrated version of the same paranoid drivel.

No, I'm saying that the large majority of the Republic of Ireland's internationals from outside the country are likely to be from England, as they are now.

Actually you didn't say that at all. You need to get yer folks to sue the Brits!

It's not in the least pompous to disagree with FIFA and UEFA, as the FAI and a large proportion of your fans were doing hysterically at the end of last year and since.

Except we've moved on. Karma intervened!
And we have your continual paranoia to laugh at.

Aye, O'Fee and Adams will do as your inspirations, I suppose.

Huh? Did you go to the same school as yer man above, who no-one else understands either....

I think other readers know well enough, actually.

More pompous claptrap.

I, like all my contemporaries learned about it at. Kids nowadays will see it covered in the media regularly. It doesn't really even contradict any ideology, merely acknowledging that there have long been both unionists and nationalists, or similar earlier groups.

More pointless waffle. See posts passim.

[DannyInvincible]

Unlike Northern Ireland, as one can only play for the RoI with Irish citizenship, it'd be pretty difficult to expect those who don't want to make a political statement to do so.

Hypocritical much? Maybe even a bit presumptious. Playing for Northern Ireland is as much an expression of one's British/Northern Irish identity/nationality as playing for Ireland is an expression of one's Irish identity/nationality. Due to the nature of international football - played between, you know, like, political entities - playing with an international football team will inevitably be an inherently politico-cultural expression of some sort. Such expressions need not be inherently "bad" either - in fact, I think it's a good thing that the identity rights of northern-born Irish nationals are respected - so no need to attach a stigma to anything here. Now, tell me this, my good fellow; being a Donegal man and all yourself, what was it that got you supporting Northern Ireland? The silky skills, was it?

Also would threaten the FAI's pretence that all they do is wait beside a phone, as Jonny Evans' public statements proved. Nah, better to concentrate on the young nationalists, now where's my big book of Catholic-sounding names?

You do see what you just did there, don't you?

No idea what the rest of your post is about...

[backstothewall]

Just to clear something up before the nigh on certain closure of this thread, I was talking in general terms GR, rather than specifically about Ferguson. Although I see no reason at all why we shouldn't still call him up, I would consider it unlikely he would accept our invitation at this stage.

Generally I would love to see us have a few Ulster unionists in the squad. But I doubt Ferguson will ever pull on a shirt for the FAI at this stage. Having already played for the senior NI team, friendly or not, it would be a world of bother to change at this stage. And as you quite rightly allude to, if he was to make the change he would be behind Duff, McGeady, Treacy, Hunt and Wesley Hoolahan (a half-baked name if ever I heard one). In fact the only way he would be likely to get called up to our squad would be in the event of some serious contagious disease effecting every Southpaw in Ireland except him and Andy Reid.

[ifk101]

Is fhtb a moderator on owc?

[Gather round]

Except that's just your 'opinion'

Not just, is it? It's a fact that you posted 192 times on that thread, with 178 more nuggets in the one that started on 19 November last. It's a fact that the paranoid planter keywords pop up in most of them.

And of the unionist mindset that automatically and arrogantly thinks it's always right

Don't be like that, self-pitying mopery is so last year. Anyway, if I was that automatically arrogant, would I really post on a message board where many are likely to disagree with me?

You need to get yer folks to sue the Brits!

Surely you're more likely to sue? I mean, after being forced to live in this country (ie, Britain) for so many decades against your will?

Huh? Did you go to the same school as yer man above, who no-one else understands either....

Ha ha. As I went to school in Belfast and FHTB in (I assume) Donegal or Derry, almost certainly not. Although you and he might have crossed during your brief time at primary in Tyrone.

More pompous claptrap...pointless waffle

If my replies to your ramblings bore you, ignore them and better still don't invite them in the first place?

Actually you didn't say that at all

As my good friend Nanook at the North Pole says up the page, I do occasionally repeat myself. Specifically,

Northern Ireland probably isn't the best/ biggest source of players from outside the country: there are likely to be more in England, unlikely to play for them and thus less likely to cause a fuss if they declare for the South

England will remain your largest source of players from outside the Republic largely because it's about 30 times more populous than NI

No, I'm saying that the large majority of the Republic of Ireland's internationals from outside the country are likely to be from England, as they are now. Do try and read what others post before you go off on one?

Just to clear something up before the nigh on certain closure of this thread

Oh, I don't know. It won't necessarily storm to 50 pages like some others. Ferguson is a 19 year old Premiership reserve; I doubt he'll have established in either club or national side before this one peters out.

I was talking in general terms GR, rather than specifically about Ferguson

Understood, so was I.

Although I see no reason at all why we shouldn't still call him up

I've given you a few above. He's already an adult and a full international; you'd be unnecessarily prologing a spat, someone else not in your squad as a result might be more deserving of a place?

Generally I would love to see us have a few Ulster unionists in the squad

Can't see more than the very occasional one-off like Kernaghan. But in principle, why not? There'd be plenty of Englishmen and Scots to keep him company, maybe the occasional Brazilian or German in future?

Wesley Hoolahan (a half-baked name if ever I heard one)

Steady on. I've both a brother and uncle called Wesley.

Is fhtb a moderator on owc?

Yes.

[shakermaker1982]

Keep up the good work lads. This thread will be bigger than the eligibility thread in no time!

[fhtb]

This is the same guy who still fails to grasp the fairly basic concept of nationality/citizenship and what that entails.

That'd be the same basic concept that doesn't allow you to vote there? Citizenship for the RoI is a twee way of pretending it's something it's not, without reality taking a hit

John Delaney

The guy who insisted he had some kind of duty to select Northern Irishmen, 'especially northern nationalists'? Sure he's probably using the same big book of surnames you bunch of amateur profilers gather round

Regarding Jonny Evans' supposed 'public statements', can you tell us more about that,

Google it, although I'd question what the point is in you doing so given you'd merely be doing so to justify your own wilful naivety on how the RoI operate at present.

[geysir]

Evening to you too, Ice boy.
If you're bored by my repeated opinion, ignore it. Better still, don't post your own ponderous self-importance ten times as often. Any more hot air and your igloo might melt.

If you persist in posting your opinion on all things eligibility related here, then you should be man enough to take a retort, never mind the immature, bizarre and unrelated references.