Bohs in financial trouble

**pineapple stu** · 15/02/2011, 3:05 PM

One way of looking at it alright. Though an extra E200k is a lot to add on to a budget (given there's First Division clubs being run off that for a whole season).

**de bowez** · 15/02/2011, 3:06 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Thats about what Bohs fans raised over recent months isn't it?

The majority used to pay off players and restructure debt the rest used to kickstart these contracts.

**de bowez** · 15/02/2011, 3:08 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

One way of looking at it alright. Though an extra E200k is a lot to add on to a budget (given there's First Division clubs being run off that for a whole season).

Its not ideal but then Im not happy with the way the club has been run over the last 10 years anyway. To argue the other side once you are paying Fenlon 100k or whatever it makes sense to give him some sort of budget to try to break even with and let him try to work some magic.

**Jicked** · 15/02/2011, 3:29 PM

Amazing decision from Bohs. Fenlon's begging in the press the other week that he couldn't put together a team to put pressure on the board to stump up the cash, and shock horror they find the money to assemble an experienced first team with plenty of honours behind them.

Here's the best line from the article about the press conference
''He (Fenlon) also underlined the important work behind the scenes and the dedication of supporters that had made it possible to put a squad together.''

So the Bohs fans raffling off Maradona jerseys, and organising this gig in the Olympia is all to pay Boccer Bayly and Liam Burn's wages in the hope of getting in to Europe again. Incredible.

**SkStu** · 15/02/2011, 3:44 PM

you said last year that Bayly was on fck all with Rovers. You released him. He's hardly going to sign on megabucks now, is he.

experienced first team with plenty of honours? You're having a laugh, right? Burns, Price and Bayly are the three out of the seven signings that have "honours". All of which means fck all anyway in terms of contract offers as it is a clubs market at the moment a fact which im sure Rovers and everyone else are all too aware of.

The thing people arent acknowledging is we had 4 players on our books from last years 1st team squad (plus Cronin is injured). We had 4-5 players on our books from the youth team. Otherwise we couldnt field a team this season! We have signed 7 more players - most will be on a lot less than others. I dont know what else we were expected to do and as long as we were prudent in our offers then i wont have a problem.

But dont let that stop you getting all hot and bothered...

**Schumi** · 15/02/2011, 3:45 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

you said last year that Bayly was on fck all with Rovers. You released him. He's hardly going to sign on megabucks now, is he.

You'll have to pay plenty in fines though when he loses his temper and gets sent off.

**Jicked** · 15/02/2011, 3:52 PM

Here we go again, why don't we just copy and paste our arguments from 12 months ago when the Magnificent Seven were unveiled.

Well yes Bayly was on a small wage for a league challenging side last year, but he would have been well paid for the likes of Drogheda and Bray, who surely should be Bohs rivals this season. You can make fun of the signings of Price and Bayly, but they've just played an awful lot of games for the League Champions, playing pretty big parts in the title win. They're not exactly barrel scraping signings whether you like them or not.

When you say you don't know what you want to do I'm not really sure what to say. Monaghan, Bray and Drogheda will be in the Premier Division next year. They also have to worry about putting out a side, but will be doing so for a hell of a lot cheaper than what Bohs will.

Remember, this is in a season where the chances are there will be no relegation from the Division. Your perfect chance to put a side out for as cheap as Bray did last year, pocket the Europa League, LoI and Setanta Cup money, rebuild the squad on the pitch by keeping whatever decent young players come through from the year, and then start again in 12 months time still in the 12 team Premier Division, with the money from this year going towards actually restructuring your long term debt and putting the club in a better position going forward.

**SkStu** · 15/02/2011, 4:05 PM

Originally Posted by Jicked

Well yes Bayly was on a small wage for a league challenging side last year, but he would have been well paid for the likes of Drogheda and Bray, who surely should be Bohs rivals this season. You can make fun of the signings of Price and Bayly, but they've just played an awful lot of games for the League Champions, playing pretty big parts in the title win. They're not exactly barrel scraping signings whether you like them or not.

Okay so Bayly was on a small wedge last year. Id venture he's on a small wedge again this year. Your post also suggests that Rovers are paying above the odds as they are a league challenging team again this year. Not really sure where your going with that, either he was on a small wage or he was not.

Where have i made fun of Bayly and Price by the way? In fact i singled them out as two signings with honours.

Also, you failed to acknowledge the fact that, more than ever before, this season is a clubs market. That will have had a huge bearing on the contracts that ALL clubs are offering.

Originally Posted by Jicked

When you say you don't know what you want to do I'm not really sure what to say. Monaghan, Bray and Drogheda will be in the Premier Division next year. They also have to worry about putting out a side, but will be doing so for a hell of a lot cheaper than what Bohs will.

I stated that we have to be able to field a team. We made some astute signings of youngsters who will be on a very small wedge, a very young loanee and 3 of your so called players with "experience and plenty of honours". Seeing as though you seem to know how much Monaghan, Bray and Drogs are going to be spending, could you please share that information so i can share that with the Bohs members for comparison sake? Thanks.

Originally Posted by Jicked

Remember, this is in a season where the chances are there will be no relegation from the Division. Your perfect chance to put a side out for as cheap as Bray did last year, pocket the Europa League, LoI and Setanta Cup money, rebuild the squad on the pitch by keeping whatever decent young players come through from the year, and then start again in 12 months time still in the 12 team Premier Division, with the money from this year going towards actually restructuring your long term debt and putting the club in a better position going forward.

We have actually restructured our debt. We have retructured our budget and are now focussed on the season ahead and the long term challenges we still face. Nothing has changed except 6 new signings and a loanee.

**Spudulika** · 15/02/2011, 4:29 PM

From what I saw Bohs have some half decent under-20 and A team players, so they will be good squad players with a couple well able to step up. It's very interesting to see that everyone seems to know what everyone is earning, especially when it comes to cheapshotting other clubs. Bohs could realistically budget for 1-1.3million as they have the earning capacity to do so. Rovers, apparently, are budgeting for closer to 2million, while Sligo Rovers somewhere in between. As it stands it's a 2 horse race again, unless Dundalk, Pats and Monaghan can put up a good show (tongue removed from cheek after last sentences).

**pineapple stu** · 15/02/2011, 4:33 PM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

Bohs could realistically budget for 1-1.3million as they have the earning capacity to do so.

Average crowds of about 1300? 1300 @ E10 x 20 home games = E260k.

Yes, there's prize money, sponsorship, membership, etc, but there's also debt to be paid off. It's a massive leap to suggest that Bohs could realistically budget for E1m.

**Spudulika** · 15/02/2011, 4:43 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Average crowds of about 1300? 1300 @ E10 x 20 home games = E260k.

Yes, there's prize money, sponsorship, membership, etc, but there's also debt to be paid off. It's a massive leap to suggest that Bohs could realistically budget for E1m.

If you put in a couple of "glamour" friendlies you're adding E100k to the pot too, though as a club with a pretty good fanbase they should be at least budgeting for the million euro mark. Is the debt related to the actual submission or under re-structuring is it separate? Though for the licence it's realistic expectations so the gate average would be up around 2,000, sponsorships over E200k, glamour friendlies E100k, dues and others E100k and prizemoney up near E200k. It then boils down to how much are their repayments on debt.

**Dodge** · 15/02/2011, 4:48 PM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

If you put in a couple of "glamour" friendlies you're adding E100k to the pot too,

HOw many of them have happened in recent times and you want Bohs to get 2 a season?

Though for the licence it's realistic expectations so the gate average would be up around 2,000

They got about 200 less than that when they won the league.

dues and others E100k

LOL

and prizemoney up near E200k.

So they'd have to win the league twice

**Jicked** · 15/02/2011, 4:50 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

Okay so Bayly was on a small wedge last year. Id venture he's on a small wedge again this year. Your post also suggests that Rovers are paying above the odds as they are a league challenging team again this year. Not really sure where your going with that, either he was on a small wage or he was not.

Where have i made fun of Bayly and Price by the way? In fact i singled them out as two signings with honours.

Also, you failed to acknowledge the fact that, more than ever before, this season is a clubs market. That will have had a huge bearing on the contracts that ALL clubs are offering.

I stated that we have to be able to field a team. We made some astute signings of youngsters who will be on a very small wedge, a very young loanee and 3 of your so called players with "experience and plenty of honours". Seeing as though you seem to know how much Monaghan, Bray and Drogs are going to be spending, could you please share that information so i can share that with the Bohs members for comparison sake? Thanks.

We have actually restructured our debt. We have retructured our budget and are now focussed on the season ahead and the long term challenges we still face. Nothing has changed except 6 new signings and a loanee.

There's not really much point to this. You think I'm having a go at Bohs because I'm a Rovers fan, fair enough, but that's not my intention. The point I'm making is that Bohs are supposedly in a fiscal crisis, but are spending money on players they don't need to spend. No, Boccer wont be one of the highest paid players in the league, but I'm sure you can see that Bohs have gone and signed players for more money than what Drogheda/UCD/Bray/Monaghan have or will be spending this year. If your financial woes are as serious as as has been made out, then that's crazy in a season where no-one may be relegated. You're being facetious in asking me to provide figures for what UCD or whoever spend, especially when I'm sure you can admit that that's a better and more expensive squad than those clubs mentioned. The money you're working hard to raise via 24 hour fasts etc could be just as easily raised by employing a squad of players on a similar cost to Bray, but it seems like the Bohs board and Fenlon would rather continue as normal and let the fans do the fund raising.

**de bowez** · 15/02/2011, 4:51 PM

We did have 2 or 3 last season, Wolves are hardly glamorous but we did sell Matt Doherty out of it so I'd expect we'll do similar this year.

**osarusan** · 15/02/2011, 4:53 PM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

Though for the licence it's realistic expectations so the gate average would be up around 2,000, sponsorships over E200k, glamour friendlies E100k, dues and others E100k and prizemoney up near E200k.

Those figures are far from realistic expectations. For a start, winning the league, cup and league cup would only get them 160k.

**SkStu** · 15/02/2011, 4:56 PM

sorry Spud - youre miles off there. If we budget for 1m-1.3m i will do a Maxi on Dalymount. That sort of money just does not exist in the league. Im sure Sligo and Shams will take issue with what you've put out there for them too. By the way i dont think the FAI allows glamour friendlies anymore!!

**Louth4sam** · 15/02/2011, 4:56 PM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

From what I saw Bohs have some half decent under-20 and A team players, so they will be good squad players with a couple well able to step up. It's very interesting to see that everyone seems to know what everyone is earning, especially when it comes to cheapshotting other clubs. Bohs could realistically budget for 1-1.3million as they have the earning capacity to do so. Rovers, apparently, are budgeting for closer to 2million, while Sligo Rovers somewhere in between. As it stands it's a 2 horse race again, unless Dundalk, Pats and Monaghan can put up a good show (tongue removed from cheek after last sentences).

Spudulika you defended Fingal to the hilt when everybody else was criticising their business model now your doing the same with Bohs. What gives?

I am absolutely baffled that you think that Bohs could budget for €1.3 million

**John83** · 15/02/2011, 5:04 PM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

If you put in a couple of "glamour" friendlies you're adding E100k to the pot too, though as a club with a pretty good fanbase they should be at least budgeting for the million euro mark. Is the debt related to the actual submission or under re-structuring is it separate? Though for the licence it's realistic expectations so the gate average would be up around 2,000, sponsorships over E200k, glamour friendlies E100k, dues and others E100k and prizemoney up near E200k. It then boils down to how much are their repayments on debt.

You're not Padraig Smith, are you? It'd explain a lot.

**SkStu** · 15/02/2011, 5:06 PM

Originally Posted by Jicked

There's not really much point to this. You think I'm having a go at Bohs because I'm a Rovers fan, fair enough, but that's not my intention. The point I'm making is that Bohs are supposedly in a fiscal crisis, but are spending money on players they don't need to spend. No, Boccer wont be one of the highest paid players in the league, but I'm sure you can see that Bohs have gone and signed players for more money than what Drogheda/UCD/Bray/Monaghan have or will be spending this year. If your financial woes are as serious as as has been made out, then that's crazy in a season where no-one may be relegated. You're being facetious in asking me to provide figures for what UCD or whoever spend, especially when I'm sure you can admit that that's a better and more expensive squad than those clubs mentioned. The money you're working hard to raise via 24 hour fasts etc could be just as easily raised by employing a squad of players on a similar cost to Bray, but it seems like the Bohs board and Fenlon would rather continue as normal and let the fans do the fund raising.

No Jicked, if it was any fan putting the same points forward i would make the same points in reply. I admit that we likely have a more expensive squad than the three clubs you mentioned but i also think we have more income potential than those same clubs so i dont see a huge problem. The problem before was a playing and coaching budget that far exceeded our income. I think we have addressed that and by my estimation have assembled a squad shrewdly.. if you disagree and think it is a disgrace then so be it, i cant change your mind.

**Jicked** · 15/02/2011, 5:12 PM

But what's the return on this investment in these players? It's a good squad, but like Pats or Dundalk last season it wont be able to sustain a title challenge. There's no danger of that squad being relegated, but since it's almost impossible to get relegated next season, why bother spending this money to finish 5th/6th and not just pocket the money and add that to the fundraising efforts?

The only possible arguments for spending the money are that by finishing 5th/6th you'll attract substantially bigger crowds then if you were challenging Bray for 8th/9th. But after last season's attendances when you dropped off the pace a bit, I think it's pretty fair to say that regardless of if you're 5th or 9th your attendances will be down, and probably down to the hardcore element of fans. The other reason for spending that money would be in the hope of winning a round or two in Europe if you got a lucky draw, but surely even the Bohs board aren't still considering that.

Fans are working their balls off to raise a few hundred grand, and now it's being blown on a decent, but not honours challenging, squad. I just can't understand why the board don't write off this season to try to raise more money for the future.