Bohs in financial trouble - FAI Licencing called into question again?

[SkStu]

Did you read Dodge's post as well? Bohs are in absolutely no position whatsoever to be complaining.

i dont think the club is complaining very much at all. Theyve just asked to be given time to raise all the money for all the players.

I am complaining though. Definitely.

[SkStu]

When was the last time they were paid? Bohs are completely in the wrong here, they haven't a leg to stand on, you've got to pay your players, coaches and barmen chaps.

yep. We know that and we are going to. Thanks for the advice though.

[SkStu]

anyone got an answer on the Cork question? I genuinely dont know if the players who werent paid ever issued winding up notice..

[eelmonster]

yep. We know that and we are going to. Thanks for the advice though.

No probs, you should have given me a shout in November and you could have avoided this nasty business altogether.

[SkStu]

we'll know where to go next time!

[Spudulika]

I was concerned about this matter to start with for the sake of a club that I had always seen as local - I went to school just down from Dalymount and have been a regular visitor to the ground since I was 3 years old. However the attitude of some "fans" of the club here and on the Bohs forum just drags away any positive feeling a well meaning neutral can have for them. I can honestly claim to come from an angle that few others who seem bent on railing against. I played for an Irish club's reserve side (in the old LOI Reserve League) and was diddled out of expenses because they were too cheap and sneaky to be honest. I went to play professionally abroad and the club I went to went bust the month before I arrived. I had a full 2 year contract with them and like other players was offered the chance to become a free agent or take compensation. Instead I went to play for a 1/6th of the wage and coached the side as we struggled to stay alive. I was then transferred to a full pro side in the same country who absolutely betrayed my goodwill and used me as a makeweight in a deal to give more money to another player. I ended up spending 3 nights sleeping in a bus station and then thumbing lifts back to my adopted home town as I was too broke to afford the price of a coffee and too embarrassed and ashamed to admit I'd been ripped off so badly. I had no recourse to make them pa up my legally signed contract or even my owed wages.

Since then I've been acutely aware of not busting the bank to make something happen when others are involved, and have always stood for players/athletes rights, within reason. Last season in the club I worked at I saw players go without wages for months and be made feel like they should be grateful to "wear the sacred shirt", well I'm sorry, but this is crap. If you want to carry on like this go sign for a junior C hurling side, don't pretend that just because of history and success that a club deserves to survive just because of a name. And do not make out that players are jumping the gun, pulling the trigger early or betraying the cause by asking for what they're due. And most sickening of all, do not claim that the players want their money before they go to Australia or elsewhere. What the heck has this to do with anything? They're entitled to this, they went out playing for your club and putting in the hours so why shouldn't they be paid.

"Fans" are always ready to rant about players being greedy, but this is nonsense. If they sign a contract, honour it. Warning signs were there last year when Bohs went on a signing spree. They gambled, they lost, they're to be treated like any other business who did the same. I do not want to see any club go under, especially a club which mean so much to Irish football, though history and sentiment needs to be removed from it all. The club didn't pay their bills on time, they've received money that is theirs and their supporters are raising funds to help the club survive. Now it's up to the administrators to take a hard decision. If they can't pay, face the consequences, don't target those who are without as being the cause.

[Mr A]

anyone got an answer on the Cork question? I genuinely dont know if the players who werent paid ever issued winding up notice..

I seem to recall that Gareth Farrelly lobbed one in at some stage?

[btid1]

Bit unfair Spudulika, can I refer you to the above

anyway this way off the original point I wanted to make.I agree the players deserve to be paid.We made the contracts with them we should honour them.

[pineapple stu]

Quite often actually.It's called being self employed.If you get paid for a job within 6 weeks its a surprise.

If you invoice people and say that invoices are due within 30 days, then that's a different matter to being told you'll be paid each week/month, and planning financially on that basis. Do you think the players' banks are saying "Sure hold off on the mortgage/credit card payments; we know Bohs are just waiting for the money"

SkStu - if you seem to agree that Bohs have no right to complain, I hardly see how you personally have a right to complain. Like it or not, the fans - of any club - are probably the least affected in these scenarios, though they like to think they're more important than they really are at times.

[shantykelly]

Stu, whether the cork players at the time threatened a winding up order is irrelevant. these two players didnt and dont play for cork; they aren't bound by any precedent. and some folks seem so sure that mcguinness pushed these two into the legal route - any evidence? they're big lads, they could have decided it themselves.
whether he agrees with it or nor, mcguinness is their union rep and if they are paid up members, then he has to support them in their (admittedly not nice but still justifiable) grievance action against their employer.
if bohs goes tits up, it isnt really shelley and grey's fault, they only signed the contracts, they didnt write them. and if that happens, then im sure you could expect to see mcguinness representing the other members of the union. its not logical, but then little about sport and politics is, especially in ireland.
two employees of an under pressure company want paid for the previous 6 weeks. thats a long time if you're getting paid weekly, and if it was me, i would follow whatever recourse i felt was necessary. they arent fans or supporters, they're employees of the club. you mightnt like the stance that they are taking, but the actions of the club have made it a perfectly legitimate course of action to follow.

quick question as i genuinely don't know - did the bohs players also take a pay cut during the year? or am i getting confused (again)?

[pineapple stu]

quick question as i genuinely don't know - did the bohs players also take a pay cut during the year? or am i getting confused (again)?

I think they took a pay cut in exchange for a contract extension at the start of last season.

[SkStu]

SkStu - if you seem to agree that Bohs have no right to complain, I hardly see how you personally have a right to complain. Like it or not, the fans - of any club - are probably the least affected in these scenarios, though they like to think they're more important than they really are at times.

Of course we, fans, are the least affected by all such matters but surely we are allowed to complain even when we mightnt be fully right in doing so - complain about bad decisions, bad defending, bad goals, bad players, bad owners, bad managers etc etc. I thought thats what alot of being a fan was about.

but, i should probably just go back to being silent on this thread as i did for the past few weeks/months and allow everything to go unchallenged.

[pineapple stu]

Of course we, fans, are the least affected by all such matters but surely we are allowed to complain even when we mightnt be fully right in doing so - complain about bad decisions, bad defending, bad goals, bad players, bad owners, bad managers etc etc. I thought thats what alot of being a fan was about.

Being a fan doesn't involve complaining about absolutely everything. Sometimes it involves looking at the bigger picture. As Dodge outlined more succinctly than I did, the players have acted perfectly reasonably. I think it's a disgrace that you're complaining about players looking for what they're due in the current day and age. The players are still technically in employment, so I'd imagine they can't even sign on. They've gone since before Christmas without pay, which presumably affected their holiday period. It's utterly, utterly selfish of you to complain about the players looking out for themselves at the expense of a club which has long been so incompetently managed.

[SkStu]

Stu, whether the cork players at the time threatened a winding up order is irrelevant. these two players didnt and dont play for cork; they aren't bound by any precedent. and some folks seem so sure that mcguinness pushed these two into the legal route - any evidence? they're big lads, they could have decided it themselves.
whether he agrees with it or nor, mcguinness is their union rep and if they are paid up members, then he has to support them in their (admittedly not nice but still justifiable) grievance action against their employer.
if bohs goes tits up, it isnt really shelley and grey's fault, they only signed the contracts, they didnt write them. and if that happens, then im sure you could expect to see mcguinness representing the other members of the union. its not logical, but then little about sport and politics is, especially in ireland.
two employees of an under pressure company want paid for the previous 6 weeks. thats a long time if you're getting paid weekly, and if it was me, i would follow whatever recourse i felt was necessary. they arent fans or supporters, they're employees of the club. you mightnt like the stance that they are taking, but the actions of the club have made it a perfectly legitimate course of action to follow.

like btid1, i dont disagree that the players arent entitled to their wages. We cannot honour the contracts for these 10 players for next season therefore we are trying to buy them out of their contracts and allow them to sign elsewhere without losing too much.

Of course the 2 players are entitled to do what they have done but i dont like it and i dont think it is right. I dont like that McGuinness has encouraged them to do this to the possible detriment to the other 8 or to the possible detriment of the 2 in question. By encouraging and/or endorsing the approach of Shelley and Grey he has failed his duty as a union rep to look after and bargain the best deal for the collective.

[SkStu]

Being a fan doesn't involve complaining about absolutely everything. Sometimes it involves looking at the bigger picture. As Dodge outlined more succinctly than I did, the players have acted perfectly reasonably. I think it's a disgrace that you're complaining about players looking for what they're due in the current day and age. The players are still technically in employment, so I'd imagine they can't even sign on. They've gone since before Christmas without pay, which presumably affected their holiday period. It's utterly, utterly selfish of you to complain about the players looking out for themselves at the expense of a club which has long been so incompetently managed.

cool.

[horton]

How come Bohs got their league money but Derry didn't a year ago?was it just because we had dual contracts were as Bohs have a simple cashflow problem? (Genuine question, not trying to bait anyone)

[Spudulika]

Bit unfair Spudulika, can I refer you to the above

Pint taken Stu, but overall (not just on the rather more fanatic fans forum) the sentiment is against everyone, as well as the club administration. As a former pro I respect the players for doing what they're doing, if more players did, and were open about it, then you'd find that clubs would soon start copping on and trying to pay proper wages (ie lower) that are more realistic. At least I'd like to think so. Bohs can make themselves a standard bearer in this regard.

[SkStu]

Pint taken Stu, but overall (not just on the rather more fanatic fans forum) the sentiment is against everyone, as well as the club administration. As a former pro I respect the players for doing what they're doing, if more players did, and were open about it, then you'd find that clubs would soon start copping on and trying to pay proper wages (ie lower) that are more realistic. At least I'd like to think so. Bohs can make themselves a standard bearer in this regard.

but if more players did it, Spud, there wouldnt be many clubs left. And really it should only be done as a very last resort in my opinion. And these players werent open about it. How and ever, i dont want to keep repeating myself and i get that there is another argument on the side of the players.

However, as soon as this mess sorts itself out, and i believe it will, and if we survive the rest of the messes ahead i am really hopeful that we will become the standard bearers you talk about. There is no other viable option for any club.

[dong]

The players should be paid what they were promised. If they end up getting ripped off by even one cent then they are entitled and correct to do whatever they can to get what they are owed.

[pineapple stu]

but if more players did it, Spud, there wouldnt be many clubs left.

You realise clubs going broke and not being able to pay wages isn't the norm, yeah? It's more common than it ought to be, but it's far from the norm.