Bohs in financial trouble - FAI Licencing called into question again?

[HulaHoop]

Not trying to get into it again but do you not see the similarities between Rovers' losses and their spend on wages?

Not going to go on a big defensive rant but Rovers are fairly cash rich even if the balance sheet showed a loss at the end of the year. Never struggled to pay wages, no revenue debt whatsoever and didn't have to cut the budget and sell players halfway through the season so no I don't see many similarities with the Bohs situation.

[Dodge]

I don't see many similarities with the Bohs situation.

You've operated at a loss every year.

[pineapple stu]

Not going to go on a big defensive rant but Rovers are fairly cash rich even if the balance sheet showed a loss at the end of the year. Never struggled to pay wages, no revenue debt whatsoever and didn't have to cut the budget and sell players halfway through the season so no I don't see many similarities with the Bohs situation.

The balance sheet showed an overdraft of E35k, so I don't see how you can claim to be cash-rich. It also showed a Revenue liability of E100k, so it's untrue to say there was no Revenue debt whatsoever. (I'd say that was probably the 2009 tax return, in which case, it's all under control, but it's on record that ye did have a Revenue debt)

[White Horse]

Why would you give Bohs a few extra million and then build them a stadium for no particular reason?

I know. It's not as if South Dublin County Council is their local authority.

[dong]

In fairness he didn't say there wasn't problems. He said the SCP wasn't an issue.

Bohs fans were told last night they are way, way under the SCP

I was more talking about general attitudes than that specific post Dodge (maybe I shouldn't have quoted that particular post). I still stand by my point.

By the time we went pop there were still fans in denial, but also a lot up in arms. But to say that we knew for years what was going on and did nothing is just pure nonesense.

Okay, that may have been an exaggeration to say "for years" Steve but, again, I was talking about the general attitudes of fans to defend their club at all costs despite what is so patently obvious if they just took the blinkers off for one second and stop being so defensive when issues like this arise.
Happens with the hooligan issue as well constantly. The only club, as far as I can see, that has done anything to eradicate the problem in any real way has been Dundalk and I have seen a few posts from their fans accepting that there is a problem there (no matter how small) and actually accepting it and doing something about it. For most other fans its a case of: "It was only a tiny minority" or "What about what your fans did etc etc".
I understand the nature of supporting a team means that often times we may have tunnel vision and sometimes problems are not made known to the fans until it is too late. But at the same time hold your hands up when its gone pear shaped and accept it while there is still a chance to do something.
I have no knowledge of the intricacies of Bohs finances but the transfer embargo last season, the wages being paid with the crowds they get in Dalymount over the last couple of seasons should have been warning enough that the plan had to change. They could have gotten a bit more realistic and maybe with a bit of prudence avoided the liklihood of going part time now next season.
Around and around we go....

[Jicked]

You've operated at a loss every year.

A rather manageable loss in the LoI scheme of things. Reasons for last year's (first season in Tallaght) loss was explained to members at the AGM, and those reasons suggest the (already relatively meagre) scale of that loss shouldn't repeat itself in future years in Tallaght. The fantastic uptake on season tickets and our European run this season should help no end too.

[Dodge]

A rather manageable loss in the LoI scheme of things

No question, but a loss none the less. And you've accrued losses too. In no way am I saying Rovers' financial woes are anything like those on the sclae of Bohs. I'm just pointing out that every LOI club has to fight constantly just to stay above water.

[HulaHoop]

The balance sheet showed an overdraft of E35k, so I don't see how you can claim to be cash-rich. It also showed a Revenue liability of E100k, so it's untrue to say there was no Revenue debt whatsoever. (I'd say that was probably the 2009 tax return, in which case, it's all under control, but it's on record that ye did have a Revenue debt)

Ah sorry should have explained my information was coming from the Members AGM held in April which is a few months after those 2009 accounts were finalised. Obviously at that stage we were cash rich after selling the guts of 3000 season tickets.

[pineapple stu]

At that stage, maybe, but sure 3000 season tickets just takes what - E30k a match? - off your gate receipts. Doesn't in the least address the question of the E140k loss last year.

[Dodge]

a loss none the less

Just as an aside, I think this may be the worst phrase I've ever posted

[Brusher]

As somebody who reads this forum on a daily basis, but never commits my thoughts for fear of being castigated. I feel I have to reply to the crap from some people.As a Bohs fan since 1981, my innocent dreams of a young kid was the hope that somewhere down the road that my team Bohemians and indeed others would turn full time and actually compete against bigger and better teams in Europe. I can only thank the Board at Bohs over the last 10 years or so that this was achieved, even if it now looks like a nightmare in the making.I believe that the decision makers at Bohs and other clubs were only guilty of aspiring to achieve from their own country.The only people really to feel ashamed at the sure demise of the League of Ireland, are the same bar stoolers who this weekend will consider themselves "Mancs" and "Scousers" etc.So i would ask people on this forum, to not gloat at anothers demise, as we surely could do with each others support at these times where no club can have the high moral ground.

[BohsPartisan]

I was more talking about general attitudes than that specific post Dodge (maybe I shouldn't have quoted that particular post). I still stand by my point.

Er you directed the "here we go again" comment directly at me. I was only replying to a specific point mede by one poster on the SCP. Yes we are up **** creek, no the SCP is not part of the problem this year. Plus I resent the suggestion that I had my head in the sand. How do you know what way I voted on the last few budgets? Just because I don't share my misgivings with the members of foot.ie doesn't mean I don't have them.

[De Town]

No relegation again this year, thanks to elite clubs abusing finances, the FAI are a farce....must be the only league in Europe where ye just can not get relegated...

As a Bray fan, I'm sure you'd know all about this.

[marinobohs]

Like ourselves clubs have been deservedly docked points over the last few years. Bohs have been warned this season and more than once last season about their finances by the FAI and zilch. And some Bohs fans come on here saying the FAI let us away with murder.

Perhaps the reason we have not been docked points is because we have broken no rules yet ? No matter how many times you say it we did not breach the 65% rule. try learning the rules not making them up, theres a good chap.

on the club finances there is major issues (never denied by bohs posters here) the first is cash flow to cover existing contract liabilities (and day to day expenditure). This will need to be covered to get us through until the end of the season. Longer term the issues are future expenditure / business model especially in a declining market (given the economic situation it would be very optiistic to expect income to go anyway but south for any club) so it is even less likely full time football will be a viable option next year (for any club). The ongoing saga about the sale of Dalymount and payment of monies owed will determine the mid to longer term future of the club - if it goes well we could come out OK but another balls up and we could be history (will leave the valuations to the shams property experts - must be the experience from Milltown ).

Meeting last night was to flesh out where the club is on all of the above issues, to inform the memebers of the position and to engage around what direction members want to proceed. It was not an EGM/AGM and accordingly nothing was voted on contrary to some reports.

[hoops1]

I hope Johnny Logan hasnt booked his holidays.

[pineapple stu]

Can we try keep this to the actual topic, and not have it descend into petty point scoring for once?

[dong]

Er you directed the "here we go again" comment directly at me. I was only replying to a specific point mede by one poster on the SCP. Yes we are up **** creek, no the SCP is not part of the problem this year. Plus I resent the suggestion that I had my head in the sand. How do you know what way I voted on the last few budgets? Just because I don't share my misgivings with the members of foot.ie doesn't mean I don't have them.

Hence why I said that maybe I shouldn't have quoted that particular post BohsPartisan. Also, I never said that you in particular had your head in the sand, sure I haven't a clue who you are or what your role is in the club.
Its just a general trait that I was alluding to.

[HulaHoop]

So come on Rovers fans, what was said in the meeting??

A couple of things have appeared on the ultras forum this morning. Up to anyone reading whether to believe the content or not.

Up **** creek without a paddle and they know it. Some interesting pearls to come out of last night's meeting :

The car park money they are getting from the Mater hospital which they were relying on for income is now totally being directly paid to the Revenue to try settle their tax bill. And because of cut backs in the HSE they don't know how much longer they will even get this.

Madden and Brennan are being whored around Scotland and England in a desperate bid to raise funds.

They claim to have a wage bill of 600k ( yeah right ! ) covering 35 staff who are under contract for next year which they can't pay. Players have refused to take pay cuts and are still owed bonus money. Nutsy believed to be owed 20 k.

Trying desperately to sell Dalymount to Paschal Conroy but Liam Carroll and Albion have to play ball. They have sent Carroll solicitors letters but he has not responded.

Fair play to the members. They have agreed to pay into matches for the rest of the season. How very noble of them. The same members who complained about having to pay into Villa and Wolves friendlies and who refused to pay into TNS match cos they are members.

And get this, in an even more desperate bid to get funds they have an agreement with Drogheda that all tickets for the abandoned game are null and void and everybody has to pay in again with bohs getting half the gate.

To add to TBC's post, the €600k is not the budget but the obligation they are under for next year. The players were asked to cancel contracts for next year, rightly told Bohs to **** off. Possibility of fully amatuer football next year. Treasurer (or whatever anachronism he goes under) admits they ****ed up the budgets this year.

Paschal Conroy has them over a barrel re the future of Dalymount as many of us predicted. The stupid *****s have no one but themselves to blame for the demise of 'the home of Irish football'.

KOH

[Jicked]

As somebody who reads this forum on a daily basis, but never commits my thoughts for fear of being castigated. I feel I have to reply to the crap from some people.As a Bohs fan since 1981, my innocent dreams of a young kid was the hope that somewhere down the road that my team Bohemians and indeed others would turn full time and actually compete against bigger and better teams in Europe. I can only thank the Board at Bohs over the last 10 years or so that this was achieved, even if it now looks like a nightmare in the making

Good god, you consider potentially f*cking the long term future of the club out the window in exchange for being beaten by TNS and Red Bull Salzburg as being worth it?

[Dodge]

AI can only thank the Board at Bohs over the last 10 years or so that this was achieved, even if it now looks like a nightmare in the making.I believe that the decision makers at Bohs and other clubs were only guilty of aspiring to achieve from their own country

The crucial difference is that some clubs financial problems were caused by people the fans could not control. In Bohs case, every board member was elected every year. Bohs fans could have helped their cluba long time ago.

Luckily it seems that you're one of the few still dreaming of europe. The majority of the rest of Bohs fans are very much in survival mode. I wish them well