Maybe you should hire George Smiley?Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Personally, I don't really have an issue with that. Ultimately, the choice is still left to the player. It's obvious what the IFA are trying to do, but if it forces a player's hand to the IFA's benefit and is entirely within the rules, then fair enough; what can you do? The reason I mentioned the fast-tracking and guilt-tripping was because the ill-tempered reaction of the two players concerned (those mentioned above who vowed never to play for Northern Ireland again) was exactly what you'd expect under such circumstances where someone is being hounded - or however you'd like to describe it - into doing something against their will.
I just find it a bit rich that certain Northern Ireland fans (not necessarily accusing yourself of this either, by the way) seem to criticise the FAI with sinister insinuations of child abuse and the like if they dare attempt to encourage a northern-born player to play for us. The fact is that the IFA are playing the very same game in guilt-tripping players into staying with them or enticing them to stay with the prospect of being fast-tracked into the first team. It's the moral inconsistency and seeming hypocrisy of this viewpoint that gets to me really, as if the IFA operate any differently from the FAI. Naturally, both associations will operate in favour of their own interests within the rules. They both exist to ensure that the best set of players available to them will line out for them. There should be nothing too difficult about acknowledging and accepting that rather than setting the FAI out as some sort of unique amoral/immoral pariah association.
So, essentially, you have no opinion on Devine then? Or did you just forget I asked you specifically about him again?Once their gone, there's no coming back under current rules - proper order.
Put up - or get out TF.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui5ec35Toc4
I take it you have written to the IFA demanding they follow your principled approach and call on them to immediately get rid of those waiverers who swung between England and NI?
I am unaware that any player has ever represented Northern Ireland "against their will".
If they don't want to play, all they have to do is say "I'm off".
They shouldn't be hounded.
The two players mentioned earlier, rather than be hounded to play for us, should never be selected to represent Northern Ireland again.
As a supporter, I most certainly do not wish to see any player represent Northern Ireland, who doesn't really want to - in fact, on the contrary, I want any such players weeded out.
With regards to Devine, I'd call him up into the Senior squad later in this campaign. Suss his intentions out.
Last edited by Not Brazil; 04/09/2010 at 4:14 PM.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Not every English born player is eligible play for Northern Ireland, even if they wanted to.
But, you know that.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Boyce played last night for the Norths under 21s
Nor I. Although the players in question clearly had reservations over being wherever they were on tour with the Northern Ireland under-18 squad given the outburst and the fact that at least one of them had previously expressed a wish to leave the Northern Ireland set-up a year previously only to be "hounded" (as the original OWC contributor described it) to stay by Paul Kee. I think they'd fit the definition of reluctant participants. I'd imagine there are plenty of others in two minds playing within the Northern Ireland footballing structure also.
No issues there really. The players have made their future intentions pretty clear.If they don't want to play, all they have to do is say "I'm off".
They shouldn't be hounded.
The two players mentioned earlier, rather than be hounded to play for us, should never be selected to represent Northern Ireland again.
As a supporter, I most certainly do not wish to see any player represent Northern Ireland, who doesn't really want to - in fact, on the contrary, I want any such players weeded out.
What if they were to waver again and plead for selection with Northern Ireland again at some point in the future, however? In essence, Devine went one step further than they have by actually partaking in an FAI training camp - albeit without the explicit outburst to his coaches at the IFA - but you'd be willing to have him in a future Northern Ireland senior squad? That appears to be a contradiction, in my mind.
Its beginning to look like NI may fast track some outragously talented 4 year olds in some dead rubber qualifying match just to test their "reliability"
Personally, I wouldn't have them about the place.
Regarding Devine - the purpose of putting him in a future Senior squad (if he's any good) is to help him make his mind up. If he doesn't really want to play for Northern Ireland, I don't want him playing for Northern Ireland.
I think you'll see quite a lot of fast tracking by the IFA, going forward.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Hmm, 'fast-tracking' in competitive games, yeah right. Even the IFA aren't that stupid.
Though I'm sure there'll be a few Irish cast-offs like Gorman about the place. Still good luck to him;He must be desperate!
The IFA have been fast tracking players for years as a way of 'persuading' players to stay, or join their team. We saw this with Shane Duffy, it was also used as a carrot to tempt back Michael O'Connor, with the promise of a senior cap. Former Ireland u15international John Gorman seems to have got his reward for leaving the Ireland youth set-up to join the IFA team, by being included in recent senior squads. I expect to see Ryan Brobbel get the same fast tracking. Brobbel attended several Ireland training camps over a 12 month period before being 'persuaded' to join the IFA team. Former England international Oliver Norwood has also been rewarded with a senior cap for his decision to leave England.
Fast tracking by the IFA seems to be being used as a method of tempting players from other associations, as much as it is a desperate attempt to keep players who clearly have an allegience and affinity with Ireland.
Last edited by co. down green; 04/09/2010 at 7:22 PM.
It didn't do any harm last night.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
It's a darn good way, going forward, for, emm, helping some players make their minds up.
Put up - or get out TF.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Good result, but Gorman on for one minute, how sad was that by NW. He might never play again.....
No "sad" at all - NW rates the kid very highly. Got him nailed down for the future now. Well played Nigel.Good result, but Gorman on for one minute, how sad was that by NW. He might never play again.....
Call ups for Ferguson and Boyce next month please.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Yeah, like Ferguson and Boyce will be pitched in, straight up v.Italy. As I said, even the IFA aren't that stupid?
But then maybe they are...
Surely he was already 'nailed down' as he had already changed associations ?
2 minutes at the end of the game in the Faroes perhaps - depending on how the match is going?
Or, if we are being tanked by Italy (quite possible) - get them on.
Of course, if they are not committed to Northern Ireland, they'll withdraw from the squad - win, win for us. We either keep them for good (that would be great), or, we suss them for not being committed to the Northern Ireland cause - that's good too...call their bluff, and get them OTF, if that's the case.
Help them make their minds up about their future - you know it makes sense.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
He'd only played schoolboys for the Republic?
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
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