Have to agree with Not Brazil here, only the establishment of FAI training camps in the North will resolve this matter once for all.
Why should a player not be fast tracked - provided it doesn't compromise the overall team effort?Originally Posted by Predator
Flush those who aren't committed to the Northern Ireland cause out as quickly as possible - if they are good enough for selection for the senior team, pick them. If that causes them a dilemma - good!
If they don't wish to commit - fcuk them. It's "goodbye, and good luck".
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Have to agree with Not Brazil here, only the establishment of FAI training camps in the North will resolve this matter once for all.
That's an, err, interesting thought - on many levels.
However - whatever it takes to weed out those who are not committed to the Northern Ireland cause as quickly and efficiently as possible gets my vote. No compromise.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
By all means, if a player is good enough to be included in the senior team, select him. However, what I find to be objectionable is the deliberate fast-tracking of players, not based on talent, but simply because they've been considering changing. The inclusion of unproven 16 and 17 year old players who have a handful of U17/U19 caps in senior teams is almost farcical in my opinion.
Have you anyone specifically in mind, whose inclusion in a Northern Ireland Senior squad you found "objectionable"?
Why do you find it "objectionable"?
I find it "objectionable" when players in a Northern Ireland shirt start mouthing off they're "never playing for f**ckn NI again", and threaten to go to the Republic team.
I say - get them OTF asap. Don't let the door hit their arse on the way out.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Who said that NB? I haven't been paying attention.
Take Shane Duffy for example. It's well documented that Worthington singled him out for fast-tracking. He was called into an IFA U21 squad aged just 16, after he had attended an FAI training camp and he was later included in the squad to play Italy, aged 17 and still just playing U18 football for Everton, with the main reason being to deter him from switching to Ireland. I'd say we might see a few more players fast-tracked for the same reason.
I've explained why I find it to be objectionable. I think it makes more sense if players are selected on merit, rather than as an incentive to stay with a certain association. A player who has shown desires of switching shouldn't be lured back with the empty promise of an international future.
That's a legitimate objection to have, since you're an IFA supporter. However, that report from one of OWC's posters is anecdotal and we don't know if any players have actually said such things.
What would you say to players like Michael O'Connor or Tony Kane? Those players obviously were not fully committed to the IFA when they played for the FAI. How about players such as Dan Devine, who attended an FAI training camp, but decided to stay with the IFA. What is your opinion of them?
1. NW rated Shane Duffy very highly indeed. He saw him as an integral part of the Senior Northern Ireland team for years to come. The IFA tried, and failed, to protect their asset. I, for one, would expect the IFA to flush out those who they know to be waverers at the first opportunity, and by the most effective means. For an exceptional prospect, I would expect them to be fast tracked into the Senoir squad - make them commit or get OTF. No compromises, no softly softly. You either commit to Northern Ireland, or get out. It doesn't matter who you are, or how good you are (or might be) - all, or nothing.
2. Frankly, if you find a comparatively small Association taking whatever legitimate measures neccessary to protect their interests in the face of the CAS Ruling, and a competitively hostile, much larger, neighbouring Association, "objectionable", you are a fool.
3. I support all players who commit fully to the Northern Ireland cause. I have no time whatsoever for waverers. I want them OTF. Those in our ranks who think "I'll string things boys along, whilst it suits me", should be sussed out and hounded out of our setup as quickly as possible.
Last edited by Not Brazil; 03/09/2010 at 6:19 PM.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
You kinda dodged the question there. Wouldn't O'Connor, Kane and Devine fit the bill as "waverers", given their past actions? Should they have been shunned for good once they made contact with the FAI, in your view?
Worthington could have rated him as having the potential to be the next Franz Beckenbauer, but did he merit being included in the NI U21 team at 16 and the NI senior team at 17, when he was still only playing U18 football for Everton? Why not let the player make his own decision, which is afforded him by FIFA, in due time? Some will commit, some won't. Forcing it to be an issue causes nothing but trouble and bad publicity, as the IFA have found over recent months.
Now, now, don't get wound up and resort to name calling. I accept that the IFA (like the FAI) and managers act in the interests of their team. That's fine. However, I feel that forcing it to be an issue, pressurising young players, giving them guilt trips, hounding them, after they've expressed their intentions to play for the FAI, is objectionable.
A diplomatic response. O'Connor and Kane were 'waverers'. Dan Devine could possibly be considered a 'waverer'. I'm sure there are quite a few in the IFA youth set up who could be 'waverers', as a result of their support for Ireland. What you have no time for is opportunists.
No room for the likes of Duffy, going forward. I'm delighted he's made his choice, and gone. Players like him need to be sussed out (and flushed out, if neccessary) at the earliest opportunity.
Commit, or go.
Rather a bit of "bad publicity", than a player wearing a shirt he doesn't wish to honour - I hasten to add, I see nothing "bad" whatsoever in getting shot of any such player. In fact, I would expect the IFA to become much more ruthless in dealing with such players. Call their bluff.
Once a player indicates in any shape or form that they have desires to defect to the Republic of Ireland, that should be the end of their Northern Ireland career. No "hounding" for them to stay.
Simple as that.
Hopefully, Shane Ferguson and Liam Boyce are named in our squad to face Italy next month. So we get the jist of what their intentions are, nice and early.
Last edited by Not Brazil; 04/09/2010 at 10:20 AM.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
It would be interesting if the FAI named them in their squad.No room for the likes of Duffy, going forward. I'm delighted he's made his choice, and gone. Players like him need to be sussed out (and flushed out, if neccessary) at the earliest opportunity.
Commit, or go.
Rather a bit of "bad publicity", than a player wearing a shirt he doesn't wish to honour - I hasten to add, I see nothing "bad" whatsoever in getting shot of any such player. In fact, I would expect the IFA to become much more ruthless in dealing with such players. Call their bluff.
Once a player indicates in any shape or form that they have desires to defect to the Republic of Ireland, that should be the end of their Northern Ireland career. No "hounding" for them to stay.
Simple as that.
Hopefully, Shane Ferguson and Liam Boyce are named in our squad to face Italy next month. So we get the jist of what their intentions are, nice and early.
We would find out then which preference each player has.
Perhaps FIFA should allow the FAI a couple of extra places in squads just to get these choices decided
As you are no doubt aware, under current eligiblity rules, such questions are irrelevant.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Yip - that would work too.
Whatever it takes to suss them out, and force their hand.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
Tis best to let the players decide alright.
Absolutely - just so long as they don't dick the IFA about in the process.
Let them decide nice and early - if they are incapable of that, give them a helping hand.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
I'm sure, as a Northern Ireland fan especially, there are rules governing football with which you don't fully agree, but you wouldn't dismiss your opinion on them as irrelevant and, therefore, not worth talking about, surely? So, don't be disingenuous (again) and answer the question. I was asking you for your view - as irrelevant as you may feel it is - out of interest, merely to garner whether or not your overall point was what you might call morally consistent. Or is it only wavering under the current rules to which you object then? Besides, the question is nothing but relevant; if the above information is correct, it was since the rules in their current format were introduced that Devine took part in an FAI training camp. As you are no doubt aware...
Thanks for answering my question.
Shane Ferguson is unlikely to change, considering he has been capped at senior level (even though that doesn't bind him). Boyce has been included in the IFA U21s and should only be included in the senior squad if he's good enough.Hopefully, Shane Ferguson and Liam Boyce are named in our squad to face Italy next month. So we get the jist of what their intentions are, nice and early.
I would suss out, and weed out by whatever legitimate means neccessary, any player in the Northern Ireland set up who has future designs on defecting to the Republic of Ireland.I'm sure, as a Northern Ireland fan especially, there are rules governing football with which you don't fully agree, but you wouldn't dismiss your opinion on them as irrelevant and, therefore, not worth talking about, surely? So, don't be disingenuous (again) and answer the question. I was asking you for your view - as irrelevant as you may feel it is - out of interest, merely to garner whether or not your overall point was what you might call morally consistent. Or is it only wavering under the current rules to which you object then? Besides, the question is nothing but relevant; if the above information is correct, it was since the rules in their current format were introduced that Devine took part in an FAI training camp. As you are no doubt aware...
For example, the IFA should be fast tracking a lot more players. Force their hand. As quickly and efficiently as possible.
Once they're gone, there's no coming back under current rules - proper order.
Put up - or get out TF.
Last edited by Not Brazil; 04/09/2010 at 1:29 PM.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
I'd be supportive of calling them both up to the Senior squad next month.
Let them take their decision from there - nice and simple.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
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