Prison for Arab Israeli guilty of rape by deception.

[osarusan]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...52.html?via=mr

Has anybody else seen this story of an Arab Israeli who met a woman while working as a motorbike rider, pretended to be a Jew interested in a relationship, and had consensual sex in a deserted building?

Once she found out he wasn't what he said he was (and was a married Arab Israeli), she filed a complaint of rape, and he's been found guilty of this.

Two years ago a chance encounter in the centre of Jerusalem with an Israeli woman, who has not been identified publicly, resulted in sexual intercourse in a nearby deserted building. Kashur told the woman he was a Jewish bachelor seeking a long-term relationship.

When she found out the truth she pressed rape charges.

although I'm not without sympathy for the woman, this is a pretty dodgy conviction in my eyes. It really brings a new aspect (to my legally untrained eye) to any definition of rape.

Passing down the rape verdict, the judges wrote: “If she hadn’t thought the accused was a Jewish bachelor interested in a serious romantic relationship, she would not have co-operated.” The judges argued the court was “obliged to protect the public interest from sophisticated, smooth-tongued criminals who can deceive innocent victims at an unbearable price – the sanctity of their bodies and souls”.

Doesn't a precedent like this mean that any guy who tells a lie (about job, finances, for example) to get a girl to go to bed with him could be prosecuted in the same way?

The affair dominated Israeli radio chat shows this week. Many of the listeners condemned the ruling as racist and asked would such a harsh sentence have been passed down if the accused was a Jewish Israeli and had tricked an Arab woman?

This supports my original opinion that he is being punished for being an Arab who 'defiled' a Jewish woman.

[peadar1987]

It's one of those complicated situations.

If a woman has sex with a man because he's let on that he's rich, when he's not, that's really her fault (or vice versa, let's not be sexist here!)

If a woman has sex with a man because he's let on that he doen't have AIDS, that's a bit of a more serious matter (although she should probably have insisted he get himself checked out before doing anything risky)

[dahamsta]

Not really a defendable comparison there peadar1987, unless you're seriously trying to suggest that AIDS == Arab. (I know you're not, just making the point.)

I thought this was crazy too, but I'm not surprised by anything that comes out of Israel at this point. They've become their abusers.

[osarusan]

If a woman has sex with a man because he's let on that he's rich, when he's not, that's really her fault (or vice versa, let's not be sexist here!)

If a woman has sex with a man because he's let on that he doen't have AIDS, that's a bit of a more serious matter (although she should probably have insisted he get himself checked out before doing anything risky)

In both of those cases, there is an element of deception going on, though I'm not sure what legal crime has been committed in the first case. The second is covered by 'criminal transmission of HIV'.

But I'm not sure that either of these cases could be considered rape. The ruling in Israel suggests that convincing a person to have consensual sex by way of deception is rape (the assumption being that without deception, the victim wouldn't have been willing to have sex).

My point is that deception of this kind happens (or is attempted) in bars and clubs across the country and world every single night. The consequences of setting such a precedent (which hasn't been set here in Ireland, to the best of my knowledge) could be significant.

[peadar1987]

Not really a defendable comparison there peadar1987, unless you're seriously trying to suggest that AIDS == Arab. (I know you're not, just making the point.)

I thought this was crazy too, but I'm not surprised by anything that comes out of Israel at this point. They've become their abusers.

Nah, I was suggesting rich == Arab!

In both of those cases, there is an element of deception going on, though I'm not sure what legal crime has been committed in the first case. The second is covered by 'criminal transmission of HIV'.

But I'm not sure that either of these cases could be considered rape. The ruling in Israel suggests that convincing a person to have consensual sex by way of deception is rape (the assumption being that without deception, the victim wouldn't have been willing to have sex).

My point is that deception of this kind happens (or is attempted) in bars and clubs across the country and world every single night. The consequences of setting such a precedent (which hasn't been set here in Ireland, to the best of my knowledge) could be significant.

I was just making the point that sometimes it's pretty much okay to deceive someone into having sex with you (For example, if I was out on the pull, I might try and give off the impression that I don't spend an unhealthy amount of my time on internet forums!), but other times it's absolutely not, like if you let on that you're not married when you are, and in the worst case scenario, it should be illegal, like the AIDS example.

Just to clarify, the Israel thing is ridiculous, and definitely racist, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for condemnation from the international community. The Revelations Crew have too tight a hold on US foreign policy for that.

[micls]

If it is illegal to deceive someone inot having sex with you then 90% of people would want to get ready for prison.

Ridiculous.

[Spudulika]

I watched 4 different channels reporting this - Sky News, BBC World, CNN and Russia Today, they all came down on the side of the dude and made a claim of racism. They each had interviews with Israeli Jewish women in relationships with Israeli Muslim (remember there's a difference as not all Arabs are muslim, there is a fair proportion who are christian, jewish and a.n. other). Each woman spoke and said "My family threatened to disown me, I've been ostracised". The men uniformly didn't speak. Instead you have Israeli Muslim groups claiming racism - "Why shouldn't muslim men be allowed to date/marry jewish women?" Now, this is a situation that brings into light the absolute hypocrisy that our liberal minds overlook. Non-muslim men cannot date, let alone marry, a muslim woman! I didn't hear a question posed about this and nothing of any balance. While I think the Israeli woman took the route of a woman scorned, the guy didn't deserve prison - maybe a good kicking by her brothers and finding his belongings sitting neatly in the street, with his wife's brother waiting to give him a wallop. However Israeli muslims can't cry foul when they continue to enforce the ramblings of a bedu!