A decent year for the co-efficiant?

**Dodge** · 28/07/2010, 7:23 PM

Size of the opposition? If ROvers beat Juve, they're a better team so why shold they get more?

**SkStu** · 28/07/2010, 7:42 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Size of the opposition? If ROvers beat Juve, they're a better team so why shold they get more?

i think it makes sense. Why shouldnt it be a graded score based on the quality of the opposition? Small teams (like Rovers) from the lesser leagues should be rewarded for good results against bigger teams from better leagues.

All you would have to do would be to categorise each league based on its current UEFA standing and allot X number of points for a win against a team from Category A (e.g. England, Spain, France, Italy, Germany) and a lesser number of points for a win against a team from Category B (Russia, Ukraine, Portugal, Turkey, Netherlands) and so on...

**citybone** · 28/07/2010, 8:40 PM

hjk Helsinki are losing 2-0 which is good for us as they are the league ranked ahead of us. if rovers get any result over the 2 legs the league could get us back to 30th (unlikely)

**citybone** · 28/07/2010, 8:56 PM

make that 3-0

**A N Mouse** · 28/07/2010, 9:13 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

i think it makes sense. Why shouldnt it be a graded score based on the quality of the opposition? Small teams (like Rovers) from the lesser leagues should be rewarded for good results against bigger teams from better leagues.

All you would have to do would be to categorise each league based on its current UEFA standing and allot X number of points for a win against a team from Category A (e.g. England, Spain, France, Italy, Germany) and a lesser number of points for a win against a team from Category B (Russia, Ukraine, Portugal, Turkey, Netherlands) and so on...

So what happens when a team from spain plays a team from england?

**Charlie Darwin** · 28/07/2010, 9:16 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

i think it makes sense. Why shouldnt it be a graded score based on the quality of the opposition? Small teams (like Rovers) from the lesser leagues should be rewarded for good results against bigger teams from better leagues.

All you would have to do would be to categorise each league based on its current UEFA standing and allot X number of points for a win against a team from Category A (e.g. England, Spain, France, Italy, Germany) and a lesser number of points for a win against a team from Category B (Russia, Ukraine, Portugal, Turkey, Netherlands) and so on...

Is it really that relevant when everything is seeded anyway? All it would do is exaggerate freak results: like if Juve beat Rovers 10-0 in the first leg, then put out a scratch side and got beaten at home.

**SkStu** · 28/07/2010, 9:21 PM

Originally Posted by A N Mouse

So what happens when a team from spain plays a team from england?

the earth will implode.

I dont know! Its just an example of something that might work if it ever came to be that UEFA were thinking that way... i dont give a sh1t either way but i dont have any problem with the concept.

**A N Mouse** · 28/07/2010, 9:46 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

the earth will implode.

I dont know! Its just an example of something that might work if it ever came to be that UEFA were thinking that way... i dont give a sh1t either way but i dont have any problem with the concept.

The current system is not perfect, and is skewed in favour of the big teams. But it can be seen to treat everyone the same, and is relatively simple - there's a lot to be said for simplicity.

Why should TNS be punished because they 'only' beat bohs, I mean there could have been a category a team in the draw. Or as Charlie Darwin suggest why should a result in a dead rubber be any better than the old 'moral victory'

I can just about follow it as is. I mean we wouldn't have, much of, a co-efficient thread every year if it required differential equations to figure out what was going on.

Keep It Simple Stupid

**SkStu** · 28/07/2010, 10:17 PM

fine by me! I cant stress enough how little changing it or not changing it bothers me. Its just something i havent considered before and i think it is an interesting proposition or idea.

BTW, I wouldnt see it as a "punishment" on TNS. They are still rewarded with x number of points for beating Bohs (from their perspective the best possible draw for them) and progression to a tie with Anderlecht and another opportunity to gain more points. And a result in a dead rubber is still a result. Its not the smaller teams fault that the other team was willing to risk losing by fielding a weakened team or taking their foot off the pedal.

**Charlie Darwin** · 28/07/2010, 10:45 PM

Yeah, but it would be the fault of the system if it allowed such events to distort the rankings. I'm not particularly pushed myself on which system they use, but I can see the logic of set points when the entire structure of the competition is designed to avoid mismatches.

**pineapple stu** · 29/07/2010, 10:40 AM

The more complicated system people are proposing sounds very like the World Rankings, which people deride.

The system's grand. From about Ireland down anyway, it's irrelevant as we're at the bottom of the pile in terms of number of clubs, starting points and seeding.

**Dodge** · 29/07/2010, 11:28 AM

A “graded” system could actually hurt a country if they got one freak result. If Rovers beat Juve and got massive amount of points, Ireland may be seeded higher next year but our actual playing level wouldn’t increase. Which would mean countries at the same level of us could get more points for beating us as we’d be living off that score.

The current system ensures that if a country is to advance it needs sustained advancement from a number of its clubs, rather than one off results. It gives a truer reflection of the situation, even if it does take a while for countries like Ireland to advance.

**Dodge** · 29/07/2010, 12:57 PM

PS apologies for the amount of timems I posted advance (and forms) there...

**Schumi** · 29/07/2010, 4:41 PM

If a country's teams are good enough to beat a team from a top country (as opposed to being lucky enough to beat them), they'll get the results they deserve against lower teams and move up anyway.

There are too many situations of teams not bothering in the second leg if they win the first leg by a landslide and teams being happy with an away draw in the first leg that being drawn against teams from high-ranked countries could distort the rankings significantly. For example, HB Torshavn of the Faroes beat Red Bull Saltzberg in their home leg after losing 5-0 away; giving them bonus points for that would be silly.

**dcfcsteve** · 29/07/2010, 4:59 PM

Like any system the country rankings for club competitions would always benefit from tweaking, but generally the system does a good job and consequently there are few complaints about it.

So if it ain't broke...