Jason Byrne

**petef** · 21/04/2004, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Slash/ED

Houlihan had Reids favoured left wing role for the U21s for the majority of the last campaign, and he can't get a game on the left for Shels

Andy Reid has only come into form this and last season, very much underachieved until Harty got the best out of him. Lost some weight may I add too.

**Bowsy** · 22/04/2004, 8:38 AM

Colm, what makes you think i've never seen O'Flynn play. Watched him in all the under 21 qualifiers he played and his goal against Germany. Always keep track of potential Irish players no matter what league they play in. Don't dismiss my comments as ignorance. If you'd read any of my other comments on this thread you'd know i rate him. My arguement is he is doing it in a league in which the standard is too low for International football. Just like the English 2nd Division is too low for Internationals to play in.
This is not discrimination against EL players. I don't want Partridge or the like called up either until they are regulars at very minimum Division 1 standard.

**pete** · 22/04/2004, 9:32 AM

Originally Posted by Conor74

The thread is not whether Irish clubs would struggle in the English First Division, or would they win the Second Division. The thread is whether players who play here are as (or are more) equipped for a senior call up as players who play in England.

Exactly, if Ireland had 4-5 players playing & scoring regularily in the Premiership they would probabloy get the nod but they ain't so have to look at next tier.

I've only seen marginal cases against Bryne, crowe or O'flynn getting an Ireland callup.

**eoinh** · 22/04/2004, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

You're taking the ****, right?

Two years ago as a Division 1 side, Ipswich got to the third-round of the UEFA Cup before losing narrowly to Slovan Liberec. When Cork, Bohemians or Shelbourne do the same, then I'll take your comments seriously. Until then, it's all I'll be able to do to keep a straight... no... can't...

PP

Thats because they were able to benefit from Man U, liverpools co-efficients. In other words they got an english seeding. They started from the first round. Which means they got be two rounds. hardly awe inspiring.

Because of Bohs improved record in Europe they are seeded in this years UEFA Cup. The first time an irish club has been seeded in that competition. I can virtually predict to you because of that Bohs will get by their opponents. Being seeded makes a huge difference.

**eoinh** · 22/04/2004, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by 1MickCollins

I didn't put it well, I had meant to say he said he was "surprised" how intense the sessions were, the sub-text of what he was saying was that essentially it was a much higher level than he was used to.

Good to see youre able to look into Crowes subtexs. Crowe is a full-time professional so no matter what you think of his ability, his fitness levels are just as good as english based players. In fact, if you've been reading the papers Kerr has been imposing rigid discipline on the squad and they have been complaining as a result. Proper preparation in other words - so its not just Crowe who thought it was intense.

**eoinh** · 22/04/2004, 1:44 PM

Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

Sigma Olomouc, Suduva et al, and I may just believe you.

Ignorance. Hmmm...

PP

In your case about Ipswich you point out that they coudnt get past Czech oposition. Now you want Irish football to do better than English football teams to prove that they are nearly as good as them? Odd

Of the two teams you mentiom above when did an Irish team meet either of them? Not for a long time, if at all. I think youre getting mixed up in your choice of teams

I suppose they are all the same.

Maybe a good comparison would be comparing how Rovers did against Polish opposition and Manchester City did ? Rovers progressed, manchester didnt.

**Bowsy** · 22/04/2004, 1:44 PM

Getting knocked out by nobodies is getting knocked out by nobodies whether it be in a preliminary round or otherwise. Fair enough Bohs got knocked out by Rosenburg this year(very easily - 5 nil on aggregate if i remember rightly) who got knocked out by Depor, but Rosenburg are a shadow of their former selves. Until an El teams do better than beating BATE Borisov and the like you can't tell me it's a strong enough league for Irish Internationals to be playing in.

**�anna** · 22/04/2004, 1:47 PM

Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

Two years ago as a Division 1 side, Ipswich got to the third-round of the UEFA Cup before losing narrowly to Slovan Liberec.

If you want to play that game- Shamrock Rovers played Slovan Liberec last season in the intertoto cup and lost both legs 2-0. This was a Shamrock Rovers side which finished 7th in the eircom League last season- 10 points off the bottom of the table, 20 behind Bohs and 25 behind Shels.

I honestly don't think that any of those 3 sides would do well in divison 1. They might scrape survival, but they would comfortably compete in divison 2. The standard of this league is improving and the players who are good enough should get international recognition. Right now there's a choice to be made- do we send the good players back to england and watch standards here fall ,or do we keep them here in the knowledge that if this trend continues, more quality players will follow. I'd rather the latter because it would raise the standard of Irish football and be good for the international team as well. Also, is it not better for a guy to play for Bohs or Shels and play 2, 3 or 4 european games a season than play in division 1 or 2 in the hope they draw a "big" team in a cup, so they can play their reserves? Can you find any fault with that argument?

**dcfc_legend9** · 22/04/2004, 1:50 PM

Jason Byrne for ireland catch your self on ya dirty dublin jackeen *******.Jason Byrnes a wee ******. youse lads think hes deadly. Liaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**lopez** · 22/04/2004, 1:51 PM

Originally Posted by Bowsy

Until an El teams do better than beating BATE Borisov and the like you can't tell me it's a strong enough league for Irish Internationals to be playing in.

This is the chicken and the egg question. Irish internationals will improve the league but the league needs to improve to attract Irish internationals. One way is for the 'soccer community (basically barstoolers and 'connoisseurs' going to Parkhead and Old Trafford every weekend') to support their local teams, either through the gates or by lobbying for more TV coverage.

**eoinh** · 22/04/2004, 1:57 PM

Originally Posted by Bowsy

Getting knocked out by nobodies is getting knocked out by nobodies whether it be in a preliminary round or otherwise. Fair enough Bohs got knocked out by Rosenburg this year(very easily - 5 nil on aggregate if i remember rightly) who got knocked out by Depor, but Rosenburg are a shadow of their former selves. Until an El teams do better than beating BATE Borisov and the like you can't tell me it's a strong enough league for Irish Internationals to be playing in.

They got Knocked out by Depor by 1-0 on agg to a team who are in the semi-finals of the european cup.
They went on to play in the UEfa cup. Against Ventspills they won 10-1 on agg.
The next round they beat Red Star Belgrade and only lost to Benfica on the away goals rule in the next round.
They have won the norwegian league again - cruise to the title.
They reached the champions league group stage god knows how many times in a row. Hardly a team in decline.

**Bowsy** · 22/04/2004, 1:58 PM

Strong arguement Eanna and i do think the League will continue to improve as many players now see it as a viable, if not more attractive, alternative to 2nd division football in England. It's a long term policy however. How do you balance holding back players like O'Flynn and Houlihan who could probably make it at the highest level and letting the league grow. Unless you want to compete with Northern Ireland then having players who play 2nd Division standard football in your National team shouldn't be an option. Therefore IMO at this stage players like Heffernan, Alan Quinn, etc shouldn't be called up either.

**�anna** · 22/04/2004, 2:18 PM

it is a very hard call to make, no doubt, but IMO Bohs beating Aberdeen and running Kaiserslautern close a few years back was a turning point. Since then the league has improved a a rapid pace and I think if we can keep this pace up for another 4 or 5 years having internationals playing the league will be a vpossibility.

**gustavo** · 22/04/2004, 3:08 PM

Originally Posted by Colm

Since you live in England and your knowledge of the el is probably very limited, I'll excuse your ignorance.

doesnt that by the same token then mean that us in Ireland wouldnt be able to give a qualified view of the merits or otherwise of the English Second Division ..

**eoinh** · 22/04/2004, 3:29 PM

Originally Posted by gustavo

doesnt that by the same token then mean that us in Ireland wouldnt be able to give a qualified view of the merits or otherwise of the English Second Division ..

well, we get TV coverage of the english leagues over here. they dont broadcast irish football in england

**S�C** · 22/04/2004, 3:39 PM

Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

You're taking the ****, right?

Two years ago as a Division 1 side, Ipswich got to the third-round of the UEFA Cup before losing narrowly to Slovan Liberec

The same Slovan Liberec who Shamrock Rover narrowly lost to in the Intertoto?

**Plastic Paddy** · 22/04/2004, 6:37 PM

Originally Posted by eoinh

Thats because they were able to benefit from Man U, liverpools co-efficients. In other words they got an english seeding. They started from the first round. Which means they got be two rounds. hardly awe inspiring.

Fair point, but still not a bad showing for a second-tier side.

Originally Posted by eoinh

Because of Bohs improved record in Europe they are seeded in this years UEFA Cup. The first time an irish club has been seeded in that competition. I can virtually predict to you because of that Bohs will get by their opponents. Being seeded makes a huge difference.

I hope you're right.

Originally Posted by eoinh

In your case about Ipswich you point out that they coudnt get past Czech oposition. Now you want Irish football to do better than English football teams to prove that they are nearly as good as them? Odd

That's not quite what I said, is it? I merely pointed out that Ipswich - as a second-tier English side - had made the third round, something Irish top-tier sides have singularly failed to do since...

Originally Posted by eoinh

Of the two teams you mentiom above when did an Irish team meet either of them? Not for a long time, if at all. I think youre getting mixed up in your choice of teams. I suppose they are all the same. Maybe a good comparison would be comparing how Rovers did against Polish opposition and Manchester City did ? Rovers progressed, manchester didnt.

Maybe it would. You're getting better at this.

Originally Posted by S�C

The same Slovan Liberec who Shamrock Rover narrowly lost to in the Intertoto?

I'd hardly call a 4-0 aggregate reverse "narrow".

Originally Posted by �anna

If you want to play that game- Shamrock Rovers played Slovan Liberec last season in the intertoto cup and lost both legs 2-0. This was a Shamrock Rovers side which finished 7th in the eircom League last season- 10 points off the bottom of the table, 20 behind Bohs and 25 behind Shels.

I honestly don't think that any of those 3 sides would do well in divison 1. They might scrape survival, but they would comfortably compete in divison 2. The standard of this league is improving and the players who are good enough should get international recognition. Right now there's a choice to be made- do we send the good players back to england and watch standards here fall ,or do we keep them here in the knowledge that if this trend continues, more quality players will follow. I'd rather the latter because it would raise the standard of Irish football and be good for the international team as well. Also, is it not better for a guy to play for Bohs or Shels and play 2, 3 or 4 european games a season than play in division 1 or 2 in the hope they draw a "big" team in a cup, so they can play their reserves? Can you find any fault with that argument?

Hey eoinh, this is how it's done. And no, �anna, I can't find any fault. Great reply.

PP