exactly. give a few eL players a run in a few friendlies and it should put the issue to rest- one way or the otherOriginally Posted by Plastic Paddy
And even if we didn't find that they were good enough, it would put this seemingly endless debate about eL players in the national squad to bed, if only for a while. Bring them in.
PP
As a neutral I go to many eircom league matches and usualy enjoy them. But I have to say I've not seen one player who could hack it at international level. Sad to say, but it is the truth. O'Flynn and Byrne could possibly go on to earn caps, but I think they would have to play at a higher level of football regularly, ie Nationwide Div 1 or perhaps on the continent to improve.
Always look on the bright side of life
No token gestures! Players get to play for Ireland on merit or not at all.
Current forward options:
1. Keane
2. Morrision
3. Alan Lee
4. ????
Connolly is dire & its not good enough he plays 1 good game (v Turkey) every 4 years. I refuse to consider him now.
I think Crowe was worth he place when he got his chance but IMO he has gone backwards in the last year.
IMO Jason Bryne the form striker in the last year (O'Flynn has had too many injuries) & deserves a squad place at the moment.
Anyone suggest an alternative no. 4 striker?
I keep harping on about it but where LOI players and English based players are playing in the same team at underage level there is no difference in performance between the players. Why should LOI palyers be penalised when they reach 22.
Or to put it another way at the recent U-20 world cup Ireland did better than the following european countries
Countries
Albania
Andorre
Austria
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Belgium
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Rep.
Denmark
England
Estonia
Faroe Islands
Finland
France
Georgia
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Kazakhstan
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Macedonia
Malta
Moldova
Netherlands
Northern Ireland
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Russia
San Marino
Scotland
Serbia-Montenegro
Slovenia
Sweden
Switzerland
Turkey
Ukraine
Wales
Why can eircom league players hack it at U-21 level?
Sorry Eoinh, you've got it wrong. The eL players usually out preform their English based team mates.
Anyone remember seeing John O'Flynn and Barrett playing in the same U-21 team? If you knew nothing about either and saw them both play in the 3 games I saw them play together in you would have said that O'Flynn obviously played for a "higher level" team.
Paisley stood out a mile as a class act in the World Cup.
In Maderia the eL players stole the show, the same eL players who had only just started their pre-season while their English based team mates were mid-season.
I suppose upon reaching their 22nd Birthday players playing in Ireland automatically become useless. It's a sort of footballing Simpson gene.
Oh no not them again
Aye Tomasson, very poor standard the Premier League, Rivaldo! I'm not going to even go there. Must get myself to an Eircom League game next time I'm back if players are being mentioned in the same breath as world cup winners.Jon Dahl Tomasson was a complete flop at Newcastle, but he now plays for AC Milan. Rivaldo was a superstar at Barcelona, won the World Cup but was released by AC Milan. Here's a tip. Learn something about football (other than what Sky Sports tells you) then think about it, and then come back when you have enough knowledge to make a meaningful contribution to the debate
As for Byrne getting the Ireland squad. I don't know if he is good enough yet. He might be worth a shot in a friendly alright. O'Flynn is far and away the best striker in the league, but won't get a chance until he's fully fit.
I'm not against Byrne playing for Ireland, he just clearly needs to be tested in a higher league first, if he's good enough then I'm sure he'll get a move, needs to happen sooner rather than later as he's been kicking about for a bit now hasn't he.
If these guys are good enough as you say then why aren't bigger clubs moving in for them, they can hardly be on much money and wouldnt constitute a big risk.
Last edited by petef; 19/04/2004 at 2:50 PM.
Would be very nice for EL players to be involved in International team but the standard of the League is not high enough. EL performances in European competitions are a testament to this. I personally think the likes of O'Flynn are capable of playing at the highest level but you cannot compare the performances of underage EL players for Ireland and players involved in the full team. Paisley, O'Flynn and the like play competitive football week in week out albeit at a lower standard. Players like Flood, Whelan, Potter play reserve team football which is poor and not very competitive. Much like playing a weekly friendly. In these circumstances of course EL youngsters are going to be more competitive. Slag Connelly off all you want(and i do regularly) but he would tear EL defenses apart if he played them weekly.
Who said that clubs hadn't moved for them? There were plenty of clubs sniffing around the likes of O'Flynn and Crowe- but Crowe has proved that guys don't need to go to England to play for ireland. Irish players are better off staying here where they can play in Europe- there's your high standard- rather than playing hoofball in the dregs of the nationwide. You want an example- look at Eamon Zayed from Bray: he had one good season in the FIRST division here and now he's on loan at Crewe in the English first division. Your mentality (and I'm not having a go here) is the problem with football in this country. people assume that any team in England is better than staying here. Its not. By the looks of your post you haven't seen an eircom league game in a while, and believe me standards have imporved a lot in the last few years.
Well, Latvia play with a lot of players from the Latvian league. They qualified for Euro 2004.
If you look at Bohs and their seeding in this years UEFA cup, you'll see that they are seeded this year.
And Bowsy you keep harping on about England but the vast majority of the players from european clubs at under 21 level play first team football.
Its a bit daft comparing us to England all the time. There are 51 members of UEFA. Considering all the money in English football they dont really do that well in Uefa club competitions.
That would be the same way he has scored hatfuls against Malta, Cyprus, Andorra etc...?
Connolly "performance" against Andorra particularily sticks in the mind...
EoinH, I compare us to England because that's were our entire National team play. Now, I don't know about you but i'd rather set my sights a little higher than competing with Super Powers like Latvia. Latvia are muck. Some times rubbish teams qualify for Tournaments. They get hammered and they go home early. Would any Irish supporter not expect us to beat Latvia 10 times out of 10. I'm not bashing the Irish League. I hope it continues to make great strides like it has over the last few years but the quality is still low. EL teams are still no better than the other minnows of European Football. Until the league is stronger i don't think it's an option. It's same reason i don't want Lee Trundle to play for us(apart from the fact he's a fat mercenary). He doesn' play a high enough standard of football.
I would love to see an EL palyer be in the squad on merit....
But if you base it on goals scored then Paul Heffernan at Notts County (Div 2) should get a shot as he has scored 20 golas this year so far...he would be a better bet than trundle....also Ben Burgess is back in form albeit in Div 3 ..hopefully these lads will progress as both of them are only 22/23
Its a pity the B internationals are gone as it would be a chance to blood these lads and EL players to see if they are up to it or not
Bring back the plank
Heffernan has bagged loads and is soon to be a division 3 player. Hes no way good enough either. Your right about Connolly he may be **** but would have an absolute field day in the Eircom League. As for Irish teams in Europe they inevitably go out against teams I've never heard of. How much money is the average pro in the Eircom on anyway?
That may be. But no-one here is saying the Irish team should be full of eircom League players, we're saying that there are a few players who are worth calling up. You can't say that all players in the league are of the same standard- there are a number of players (mainly the ones being mentioned here) who are of a much higher standard than your average eircom League player. Every league needs its superstars! No-one is suggesting that every player in the English premier be considered for England!
Suppose thats why they are going to Euro 2004 & we are not? plus they knocked out 3rd place team from last World Cup.
Wages make no difference to anything so pointless to debate.
So Burgess & Heffernan the current options for 4th choice striker?
Would have to disagree with you there I''m sure many others would as well.
Maybe that says more about your interest in football on this continent than anything else.
At least the teams that Eircom league clubs fell to were a bit bigger than the great Grolclin Grodzisk (manchester city) or the stupendous Genclerbirligi (Blackburn)
Indeed. It always amuses me that the muppets who slag off the eL are invariably (long distance) fans of the Premiership, the most overhyped, insular and narcissistic league in the world. Anyone who falls hook, line and sinker for the Premiership hype (or SWEET DEAR BELOVED JESUS HELP US, the SPL) forfeits their right to make any kind of comment on the quality of football anywhere in the world, ever.
Meant to make pretty much the same point. The majority of premiership fans never cease to amaze me with their ignorance. The number of times I've watched champions league games and commented on one or two of the opposition(i.e. the non-english team) players only to be looked at in amazement- "how do you know that?"
I'd doubt if he'd get a game with City, Shels or Bohs.
By the way, petef, how many eL games have you been at in the last 2/3 years?
Last edited by Neil; 19/04/2004 at 8:50 PM.
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