QuoteNo. Being paid for work is being employedOriginally Posted by Riddickcule
Kicking a ball about a pitch unpaid is what is done by thousands of people a week
I don't think E50 a week - max; most of their players would have been amateur I'd say - counts as employment.
And Kilkenny and Kildare would do worse than Salthill and Mervue. At least the latter two clubs have people involved in running them. Do you really not realise how important this is, and how rare people like that are?
No. Being paid for work is being employed
Kicking a ball about a pitch unpaid is what is done by thousands of people a week
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/
Might be a silly question - but why wouldn't clubs want to be in the LOI?
Costs, infrastructure, volunteers. Magicme estimated above that it's at least something like €100,000, even if you're amateur, just to run a club. Most small clubs would really struggle to put that together from gate receipts. The minimum requirements in licensing have been ridiculed here often enough, but plenty of clubs just don't have anything like the minimum, and wouldn't be interested in trying to get there (lots of work, money). Finally, league clubs need more volunteers for all sorts of work.
You can't spell failure without FAI
Given the low esteem the league is held in by politicians, the media, the public, and junior football itself, plus the endless drip-drip of bad stories that seem to dog it, surely the real question is - why WOULD any clubs want to be in the LOI......?!
Should happen but won't because football in this country is all about politics. I'll say one thing for the way the GAA is run... centralised administration certainly keeps everyone generally pulling in the same direction. Too many little Chairman Mao's involved in Irish football, all wanting their little bit of power and glory. The people who really count - the players - are a mere after-thought. I'm currently trying to decide which of the two above mentioned teams to sign/ re-sign for. I shouldn't have to. Greystones is a small place, there should be the one Club, and my decision should be made for me
Well for senior level AFC play a higher standard. United is mainly for youth.
Wow, has the penny actually dropped on something?
For the record, as nobody has answered it yet from earlier, Carrick is in South Tipp, but the team compete in the Waterford Junior League.
Last edited by stann; 03/08/2010 at 7:20 AM.
more bass
I'm not sure what you're advocating here paddigol.
Currently anyone can set up a football team and, if they're good enough, there's a space available and they get approved, can join a relevant league for themselves. And that's how it should be.
Are you suggesting their should be some higher authority telling amateur teams that they can and can't come into being ?
The day that happened would be the day football started to die...
Only if theres already a club(s) in the area. Then they shouldn't be allowed.
I disagree. This is amateur football we're takling about.
Why should anyone tell you and your mates that you can't set up your own team and play in a league because someone else did it before you ?
What does football gain by actively seeking to reduce the number of people/clubs who can participate in their sport at an amateur level ?
At the same time, in Ireland we seem to have this attitude that if everything's not exactly to our liking, we'll take out ball and set up another club. Also, Irish people aren't great in petty positions of power, so our clubs tend to split all the time. Obviously this isn't exactly brilliant for the developmnt of football in this country. The governing body should be doing something to incentivise making your club large, cohesive, and efficient, as opposed to having three clubs where one would do, just because of what the club secretary 6 years ago said to Danny at the End of Season dinner, or some such nonsense.
Perhaps encouraging some sort of club constitution, which has to be adopted for FAI affiliation, and giving proportionally more funding to clubs which have more members, (except in areas starved of football teams) would help.
A degree of organisation. The argument would be that areas would be better served by having larger clubs with numerous teams rather than numerous individuals as there could be a pooling of resources etc.
Certainly the current system is driven by egos of individuals who want to run clubs rather than anything else.
I don't mind either way personally.
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/
It's no way reducing the number of players, just clubs. I could see the point of showing the enterprise to set up a club yourself, if there was none near you. In a town, such as mine, there should be 1 club and 1 club only, which would serve everyones purpose as they would run amateur teams as well as top level. LOI or Provincial. Thats the way it should be.
I'd agree with you to a certain extent. However, I think it's important that the junior clubs aren't actually a part of the LOI clubs, just affiliated with them. Otherwise when you have a situation like Cork, the LOI club's out-of-control debts are going to tear down basically all of the football setup in the region, which is less than ideal! Also, people in a junior club who are only playing socially probably wouldn't be too thrilled about their subscriptions going to pay the wages of the first team. I played hockey in college (laugh all you want, it was unreal craic!), and I know I was always a bit ****ed off that, even though I paid the same subscription as the people good enough to make the first team, they got two weekly training sessions with a full-time coach, part-time fitness coach, subsidised travel to games, and a free trip to the intervarsities paid for by the club. On the 4ths, we got crap all. I can imagine someone playing for Longford Town 9ths being a little put out that his subscription has jumped €90 because the first team manager has decided he wants to join the Joseph Ndo employers' club.
Although I agree with what you say there peader, the argument is about setting up new clubs, in an area where there are already clubs. Whats your opinion on that?
Oh yeah, that's daft, but I don't see any way of completely stopping it without going into Josef Stalin territory. The best we can do is try and discourage people from doing it.
It clearly is.
One club has 11 players on the pitch at any time, with maybe max of another 4 on the bench. Across the full 'squad', up to 20 active players.
If a second team is set up then they ALSO need to have 11 players on the bench, etc etc. Therefore effectively doubling the number of players (save the odd doubling up). If there's sufficient demand for a second team, then both will get the players they need. If there isn't then one or other or both will struggle. It's the free market version of football in effect, so why does it need big brother to come along and get people to fill in forms and tell them what they can and can't do ?
Again - we're talking about AMATEUR level for feck sake !! People getting involved out of love for the game ! If a club is set up for frivilous reasons or run badly or whatever, it won't last. But why should you be creating footballing monopolies in every single town and village in Ireland ? What happens if those running your anointed club are crap football administrators, or deeply unpopulart locally, or showing favouritism to friends/family in selections etc etc etc ? By your plan it's tough sh!te - yet it's the game that would suffer if people were being driven away as a result. Unless you propose more big brother by having such clubs monitored and intervened in by a higher authority. Inotherwords, just smothering the game in bonkers red tape out of a mistaken belief that you shouldn't have more than one club in one place - even if there is sufficient demand for more than one.
As an aside - the sweeping generalisations and stereotypes on here about how Irish people are just little Hitlers and keep falling out with each other is just crazy stuff that would be considered racist on a non-Irish forum. Sure that sort of problem exists, but it exists in any small towns or villages and isn't the preserve of the Irish. Everyone knows everyone in small towns, and there's nowhere to run from problems/personality clashes. You're as likely to find that in a small town in Cornwall, Gloucester or Alabama as you are in Kerry ffs.
Last edited by dcfcsteve; 03/08/2010 at 4:11 PM.
If the demand exists in terms of the number of players, what's the problem.......?
Why do you only want 15 people actively playing the game at a certain level in a particular town every week if there is demand there for 30 people to do so ? Why do you want to limit/reduce the number of people allowed to participate in your sport ?
I was talking about clubs, as opposed to just teams. One club could enter multiple teams, and everyone would benefit by having one club with more resources to pool, instead of five separate clubs with poor resources. It's also a lot harder for the personal agendas of small groups of people to gain any momentum in a larger club.
A similar effect could be achieved by having multiple clubs, but collaborating closely, and sharing resources
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