Should league games be postponed for teams while in Europe ?

**SkStu** · 19/07/2010, 4:00 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

First of all I disagree that european progression is the be all and end all.

Secondly of all*, whats your solution for Bohs who would have 6 weeks without a league game.

*Its an arrested development thign

Though i generally agree with your position on the matter, it is not the only solution Dodge. Its one suggestion (which i dont agree with by the way). Also, i think you've wrong in your assertion that Bohs could go 6 weeks without a game. There is two weeks between our away leg in Wales and our game (hopefully) against Anderlecht. There is another two weeks between that date and the next round of the CL or 3 weeks to the next round of the Europa League. Plenty of time for games to be scheduled and fulfilled if that was the approach..

But isnt there an option currently for teams to have their games rescheduled anyway - require mutual consent of both teams (not likely). Perhaps the FAI could receive applications from the clubs involved in Europe and make a determination based on those applications on a case-by-case basis instead of the requirement for mutual consent.

Personally, im not keen on the idea. It should be assessed on a case-by-case basis. Bohs doesnt need two weeks free of games to play TNS. In fact, Tuesday (h), Friday (h), Tuesday (a), Friday (h) should be acceptable for most teams. It would be different if the away game was in east Europe of course and that is where the FAI should have the discretion.

Also, i dont agree that Europe is not the be all and end all - from a League wide perspective and from the clubs perspective, European success is top of any list. Maybe a fans perspective is different.

**Riddickcule** · 19/07/2010, 4:30 PM

The product will deteriorate if the number of teams are increased.

**Dodge** · 19/07/2010, 5:19 PM

Fair poitns stu but

Originally Posted by SkStu

Personally, im not keen on the idea. It should be assessed on a case-by-case basis. Bohs doesnt need two weeks free of games to play TNS. In fact, Tuesday (h), Friday (h), Tuesday (a), Friday (h) should be acceptable for most teams. It would be different if the away game was in east Europe of course and that is where the FAI should have the discretion.

In this example other teams are messed around. If a gme is called off with 2 weeks notice, that can throw already perilous finances into deeper trouble for some clubs.

In no way am I saying the status quo is perfect but its better than any of the solutions proposed so far (Remembering that the league have help Fingla by playing their game on Monday etc)

**boneym** · 19/07/2010, 5:29 PM

Personnally I am aginst the two week break, but my suggestion would be to have the break within the two weeks that the european games are scheduled. It will mean no break for the players that are playing in Europe but such is life. It wont solve the problem for teams that progress into the next round but it will help the matter

**SkStu** · 19/07/2010, 6:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Fair poitns stu but

In this example other teams are messed around. If a gme is called off with 2 weeks notice, that can throw already perilous finances into deeper trouble for some clubs.

In no way am I saying the status quo is perfect but its better than any of the solutions proposed so far (Remembering that the league have help Fingla by playing their game on Monday etc)

agree totally with the bolded bit. I think that is about as far as i would want the FAI to go myself.

On the example you quoted, i think you might have misunderstood what i was saying - the Tuesday games are the Euro games and the Friday games are the league games. I was making the point that, for Bohs against TNS, i dont have a huge issue with that schedule. It is pretty much what most teams were playing at the beginning of the season anyway. If it is different for other clubs or if it requires a long trip abroad, then the FAI should assess the situation and do what is best for the club in order to ensure that the players arent over-extending themselves and to ensure that the club has a fair chance of success.

And, as you said yourself, its nothing that a bit of forward thinking and planning from the FAI prior to the season couldnt address. I also think that the 8 month season is too short and extending it by 2-4 weeks should be looked at.

**DRDoc** · 20/07/2010, 12:29 AM

Was a Drogs game vs Harps postponed a few seasons back on account of euro games?

**trevy** · 20/07/2010, 7:10 AM

I agree with Dodge. Other countries don't postpone games when their teams are in Europe. It only leads to problems down the line with a backlog of fixtures. Also other clubs are denied income from gates. Clubs should be capable of playing 2 games in a week. An Irish club winning a game in Europe won't suddenly get 'barstoolers' coming to games regularly.

**Tony Soprano** · 20/07/2010, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by trevy

I agree with Dodge. Other countries don't postpone games when their teams are in Europe. It only leads to problems down the line with a backlog of fixtures. Also other clubs are denied income from gates. Clubs should be capable of playing 2 games in a week. An Irish club winning a game in Europe won't suddenly get 'barstoolers' coming to games regularly.

couldn't disagree more

first of all ask the clubs involved if they would prefer a bit of fixture congestion to being able to prepare properly for these games - I think they would. ask ian foster. look at fingal resting players last night. under my plan few other clubs would be affected.

secondly backlog wouldn't be that much

other clubs aren't affected under my plan (see first post)

success in Europe is the single quickest way to improve profile of the league - not just to attract neutrals, but also players and sponsors, and improving our UEFA coefficient means better seedings and more regular big games down the line, and easier to qualify for group stages. Rovers have a fighting chance of a Juventus tie - if Aviva was available (which it will next year). how much would 30-40,000 at Aviva plus TV deals (Irish and Italian) have earned them - possibly over 1m. having a rest at the weekend may be the difference in a tight game (like Rovers have)

clubs are capable of playing 2 games in a week but it has a negative effect on their preparations. ask the managers. we should be bending over backwards to help the clubs

**Straightstory** · 20/07/2010, 10:34 AM

Completely agree.

**Dodge** · 20/07/2010, 10:36 AM

You're over estimating the impact of Europe based on drawing Juventus.

Pats have progressed past 2 rounds of European football the last 2 years (past the round Rovers would play Juventus BTW) and there has been no discernable benefit to Pats, never mind the league in terms of profile or attendance.

**Straightstory** · 20/07/2010, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

You're over estimating the impact of Europe based on drawing Juventus.

Pats have progressed past 2 rounds of European football the last 2 years (past the round Rovers would play Juventus BTW) and there has been no discernable benefit to Pats, never mind the league in terms of profile or attendance.

With respect to Pats' achievements, Juve are a much bigger club than anyone Pats played. Rovers v Juve would gather more publicity and attract a bigger crowd than any of Pats' Euro games.

**Dodge** · 20/07/2010, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Straightstory

With respect to Pats' achievements, Juve are a much bigger club than anyone Pats played. Rovers v Juve would gather more publicity and attract a bigger crowd than any of Pats' Euro games.

No question at all about that.

But should you schedule a league season around the possibility of a club drawing a giant like Juventus when it happens every 30 years or so?

**sullanefc** · 20/07/2010, 11:00 AM

If teams involved in Europe are made play twice a week, then they need bigger squads. Bigger squads means clubs will be stretching themselves financially. And I don't have to tell ye how a club in financial crisis affects the image of the league.

And I agree with Straighstory, Juventus are a much bigger club than anyone Pats played. It will be a huge event for the league if Rovers get there.

**Tony Soprano** · 20/07/2010, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

You're over estimating the impact of Europe based on drawing Juventus.

Pats have progressed past 2 rounds of European football the last 2 years (past the round Rovers would play Juventus BTW) and there has been no discernable benefit to Pats, never mind the league in terms of profile or attendance.

Hertha Berlin and Steaua Bucharest aren't big enough draws

improve our coefficient and we'll have teams regularly getting to the 4th round of the Europa league with big draws

look at the seeded teams in the 4th round this year - Liverpool, Juventus, Celtic, Man City, Aston Villa - they would all fill the Aviva, plus TV deals how much would that be worth ? 1.5 - 2m ?

Porto, Stuttgart, Olympiacos, Galatasaray, Dortmund, napoli, leverkusen, PSV Eindhoven, Paris SG would get 20,000 + at the Aviva, maybe a lot more. thats about 500k, with TV deals aswell. this is serious money . two to three week break to market the games too

clubs gettting regular 500k - 1.5m injections from european ties, with an improvement in seeding and with the aviva now finished thats not unrealistic - think of how that will change the league, ground improvements, allow clubs to go fully pro, attract and afford bettter players

all of those draws listed above would make a lot more than Hertha Berlin or Steaua Bucharest. its the money that would ultimately improve league crowds indirectly the long term (through improvements in grounds and players) not the games themselves (though good performances will help).

pats didn't make enough money from those ties. a bigger draw (say PSV Eindhoven) could have been the difference between you staying full time or going semi-pro. thats a perfect example of how important these games are and the difference they can make

**Mr A** · 20/07/2010, 11:15 AM

If you start postponing games due to Europe you leave yourself vulnerable to a horrible fixture pileup if you have a period of bad weather that sees multiple games called off.

And as has been stated above, European exploits make very little difference to the rest of the league. Are we to believe that Rovers-Juve would make a difference when Shels-Deportivo or Pats-Hertha made feck all? I cannot see it. While there should be flexibility for the clubs involved in Europe, it should not automatically take priority.

**Tony Soprano** · 20/07/2010, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Mr A

If you start postponing games due to Europe you leave yourself vulnerable to a horrible fixture pileup if you have a period of bad weather that sees multiple games called off.

And as has been stated above, European exploits make very little difference to the rest of the league. Are we to believe that Rovers-Juve would make a difference when Shels-Deportivo or Pats-Hertha made feck all? I cannot see it. While there should be flexibility for the clubs involved in Europe, it should not automatically take priority.

Shelbourne could only use half of Lansdowne Rd for Deportivo (20,000). would make twice as much if that game was played this season. the aviva seriously increases clubs potential to make money from europe

as i have already said pats games aren't the type of draws I'm talking about

**Tony Soprano** · 20/07/2010, 11:39 AM

Dundalks' players are shattered - look at their results recently.

rovers could be in trouble too - long trip to Israel, imagine this goes to extra time and rovers go through. what type of condition are the players going to be in for Monday's game with UCD. Either they rest players, or play their full XI and players are then shattered for Juve game 3 days later. Either way that game against UCD should not have been played

**marinobohs** · 20/07/2010, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

No question at all about that.

But should you schedule a league season around the possibility of a club drawing a giant like Juventus when it happens every 30 years or so?

Is it really beyond the LOI community to apply a little flexibility in fixtures to maximise our impact in European competition ? In the case of TNS I doubt Bohs would want a postponement given short travel etc but in the case of Shams away game in Israel I would see a strong case for allowing one. Is the LOI so ridgid that it cannot address both scenarios ?

Can see no reason why LOI could not be extended by one/two weeks IF necessary due to build up of fixtures towards the back end of the season. if nothing else it would cease the annual thread on FOOT.IE on the issue

**Riddickcule** · 20/07/2010, 12:18 PM

Did anyone else see in one of the papers that for the Juve game it must be played it tallaght, and they're not allowed increase capacity. Thats just ridiculous. Capacity will be capped at 6,000 for a game that could easily attract 10,000 punters.