QuoteBoth sides are in the wrong
Any thoughts?
Hoodlums or a relevant protest against archaic triumphalism, going back over 300 years, FFS.
Apparently some eejit from the OO on there saying they're 'just protecting civil liberites'. Yeah, right.
Both sides are in the wrong
Hoodlums.
How exactly was attempting to hijack the train @Lurgan a protest?
Hoodlums.
Also, anyone who lets their young kids (8, 9, 10 year olds reported to be involved) get involved in this sort of thing should have their children taken off them as they are clearly unfit as parents.
#NeverStopNotGivingUp
The Orange Order are little more than superb real life WUMs
The Catholics are worse rising to them, their banners even say LOL for jaysus sake!!
The rioters have no mandate and no real support, ergo they are hoodlums. Those "dissidents" that incite them are, not unlike some elements in the Orange Order, stuck in a timewarp and can't grasp that the overwhelming will of the people is to move on.
Are you suggestiing that if they had support and/or electoral success, they wouldn't be hoodlums?Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
The Parade doesn't go THROUGH the nationalist area, it goes past it. There is no other way past.
Bands do not play along the contentious stretch.
The protestors sat where they did to deliberately invoke violence because they knew the police would have to move them.
Of course, the protest may actually mean more if those involved were actually from Ardoyne, but it loses credibility when they're bussing in scumbags from all over the place who fancy a go at the police.
And on the subject of the police, pussy footed policing doesn't work. If you throw a brick at a police officer you should expect to get a few whacks with a baton. If you're going to get the petrol bombs out and attempt to murder officers, you should expect to get the hiding of a lifetime and then spend some time in a cell.
No matter who is rioting, nationalists or loyalists, the police should be allowed to give a good bit of what they take back. Perhaps people would think twice about acting like vermin if they went home with a few broken ribs and a sore head.
idiots - both sides. End of story.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
There really is nothing WUM about it. The OO have been on the receiving end of some pretty well thought out Republican propaganda that paints them in bad light.
Sure there are bad eggs, but the vast majority just due to to express their culture and tradition.
Train should have just kept moving, they'd soon have got out of the way of it.
By the way, to the OP, how can:
Throwing bricks at the police
Dropping a breeze block on an officers head
Shooting officers with live ammo
Throwing petrol bombs
Damaging property
ever be described as a "relevant protest" ?
It was mindless thugs who couldn't spell Orange Order never mind understand what it's about.
Thats a chicken or egg question, grounded in hypothetical event piled on another hypothetical event and therefore completely irrelevant. They don't, and they won't.
But generally, if you're asking if public disorder is valid if the cause is valid (and thats a huge if, wrapped up in huge amounts of subjectivity etc.), then unequivocally yes IMO.
Except it ain't in this case.
As I said.
So feel free to get hypothetically outraged (whilst I continue my Jesuitical studies........)
Sounds like the RUC. Ask Raymond McCord
You are very correct.
No excuse by "republican" thugs attacking a train full of Irish people, on an all-Ireland train service.
At this stage, the police should be able to go in and sweep the area.
If you want a proper accountable police service to serve the entire community, they have to be given the powers to do so. It's about time these dissident republicans realised this. There is no perfect solution
on comment of parade does not go through nationalist area it goes past it !!! their is no other way past ?? and bands do not play !! .. find it hard to believe a major city like belfast has only 1 road around the ardoyne area .. nationalist still consider it unacceptable to what they see in their eyes is the orange order still trying to rub their noses in it with their blatent show of triumphilism and their god given right to parade were they want.. of course it does no excuse the scumbags to take it upon themselves to riot . the protesters had to make the strongest protest available to them and sitting on the road was the way they thought it would be best achieved and attract most publicity (So you also have it as fact that the people of ardoyne bused in the scumbags to riot)on the other hand why did police not consider re-routing parade instead of option of moving protesters of the road.. either way it would have resulted in confrontation .. will agree with you on police being to soft on rioters .watching on tv the other night it looked like it would have been fairly easy to round up the hoods on the shop roofs attacking police.. and drag they off into jeeps and dish out some police style justice out of camera view .
" football is a simple game "
Let's look at it like this - Northern Irish non-Unionists have had to suffer decades, centuries, of being knocked about, sh@t upon and generally treated like 2nd class citizens. We al know what happened when the Civil Rights marches too place - ask those who were hit by iron bars and lumps of wood at Burnt Tallot (maybe spelled wrong) by a mob led by a preacher (Paisley Sr) who got a makey uppy non-degree from a non-university. When blacks were allowed the vote in the USA huge swathes of people in Northern Ireland were denied the same. That's 40 years ago. During the war (Uncle Albert voice on) my grandparents lived in the North (Lisburn) with my Aunt, who was only a baby. The local kids and people were great to my Grandparents and they were all over my Aunt. However as the marching season began they put the windows in and stoned my Gran as she wheeled the pram to the shop - this was in 1941/2. They were forced south and never returned.
For generations there has been this faux triumphalism being rubbed into peoples faces and it allows idiots to go ott on both sides - Portadown was one of the best examples. We'd all love to see it when the non-OO people would just ignore the marches and get past it, but we've not grown up in that situation and suffered the intimidation and frustration. Same as when we all preach on about Palestine (whatever side of the fence we sit) - we haven't grown up in Israel or Palestine so out opinions are not going to be respected by those whose Grandparents (now some Great-Grandparents) were forced to live in refugee camps where they themselves now reside, or who have rockets popping in for tea every so often.
During our local "Tourist Flagship" Orangefest event, there was a nice bonfire with a tricolour - written on the tricolour was "Keep Ulster Tidy. Kill All Taigs". I'm glad they worked so hard to make tourists feel welcome. It's a pity that some of the residents of the town were made to feel so unwelcome.
One side is as bad as the other - scumbags on both sides, who do nothing but keep this whole crap going.
Do you not find it slightly ironic, that after 30 years of preaching tolerance and equality, that dissident Republicans now cannot tolerate or allow a legal march down a public road?
And yes old git, unless the people of Ardoyne are telling lies, those involved are not from the area.
The road is a public throughfare. It's not a road through a housing estate, it's a main road.
1. I won't deny the RUC had bad eggs.
2. What I find hilarious is, these republicans and thugs who attack the police go and yap if the police hit them back, claiming police brutality. Yet, if they get the united ireland they want and come up against the Guards, they'd have the sh**e knocked out of them! The guards are allowed to do the right thing - get stuck in.
Last edited by dahamsta; 15/07/2010 at 11:19 AM.
as to the question of giving the police additional power? police in the north, in whatever historical guise, have shown they cant be trusted. i have yet to see any real sea change in attitude that would make me believe that it is ok to give more power to the cops, especially given their extensive abuse of illegal stop and search procedures.
i believe in one man, one vote. i should be that one man with that one vote.
ALWAYS ON TOUR!
I only asked because you seemed to take the trouble to link any justification for the riot to electoral support. If you'd simply suggested that, say, fighting and potentially killing in the streets are justified only when being attacked by the Police/ paramilitaries/ disaffected spides p*ssed up on buckie, I'd probably have agreed.So feel free to get hypothetically outraged (whilst I continue my Jesuitical studies........)
No offence (hypothetical or otherwise) taken. Good luck with the Jesuitcal studies. Did you know the founder was actually a Prod from BT14? Ignacio Loyolalist.
I was going to say that if you take it to its logical extreme (which I wasn't FWIW!), and don't believe in conflict against any sovereign or authority power regardless of moral or other support, then King Billy's mates way back when were nothing short of terrorists waging a campaign against a state power, and all those Orangemen peacefully walking the Queen's highway are simply showing their support for terrorism.
Not my view, but if you have zero tolerance for "disorder", sometimes it leads you down an interesting route...!
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