Could we have reached the semi's like Uruguay?

[Noelys Guitar]

I'm almost certain we would have got out of Group 1. Our starting 11 against Uruguay would almost certainly have been Westwood, Kilbane, Dunne, St Ledger, O'Shea, Duff, Andrews, Whelan, Lawerence, Doyle and Keane. My guess is 0-0 v Uruguay. 1-1 Mexico. 2-0 win against South Africa. Probably second place to Uruguay and next up Argentina. I honestly believe we might have beaten them. We would have been their first "real" game. We are much stronger physically thean Mexico. And I feel we might have just shaded it. Then onto Germany....If only

[barney]

I'm almost certain we would have got out of Group 1. Our starting 11 against Uruguay would almost certainly have been Westwood, Kilbane, Dunne, St Ledger, O'Shea, Duff, Andrews, Whelan, Lawerence, Doyle and Keane. My guess is 0-0 v Uruguay. 1-1 Mexico. 2-0 win against South Africa. Probably second place to Uruguay and next up Argentina. I honestly believe we might have beaten them. We would have been their first "real" game. We are much stronger physically thean Mexico. And I feel we might have just shaded it. Then onto Germany....If only

Possibly, but we might also have gone out. Anyway, we wouldn't have been in that group because we'd have been seeded differently to France.

It's easy to look at it now and say we'd have done well like Dunphy the other night. But if England were looking at the tournament on paper, I'm sure they would say "We could have reached the semis or final because three of the four semi finalists aren't as good as us". Fortunately, football isn't played on paper so we will never know how we would have done.

[Schumi]

Possibly, but we might also have gone out. Anyway, we wouldn't have been in that group because we'd have been seeded differently to France.

We'd have been in the same seeding pot as France were, they weren't seeded. No guarantee that the groups would have ended up as they did obviously.

Based on us being in that group and everything else going as it did, I'd expect us to have gone out to Argentina in the last 16.

[Charlie Darwin]

Yeah, our seeding would have been the same as France but we'd only have had a 1/8 chance of drawing the same group as France did. The USA/England/Algeria group would have been tantalising, if only for the hugely overlapping populations.

As for Argentina, it would have been very tought for a side like us to beat them. Germany destroyed them because they were able to dominate possession and use pace to punish their defensive frailties. The way we play, we would have given them control of the ball and relied on set pieces to break them down. It's the same approach that allowed Argentina to dominate all their group games.

[Colbert Report]

Don't kid yourselves, Argentina would have destroyed us.

[endabob1]

We'd have done very well to get past Mexico & Uruguay, 2 very decent sides, even South Africa on home soil are not easy to beat (except for the Uruguay game where they were dreadful). If we did sneak 2nd Argentina would have battered us, If we somehow won the group we would have struggled against the pace and tempo of Korea and I rather suspect Ghana would have definitely beaten us, Uruguay were very resilient. Our issue is always a thin squad, take Given out for the tournament and we look weak add in a suspension or 2 for a couple of key players (imagine Dunne missing and us facing Argentina with St Ledger & McShane!) and we'd be in serious trouble.
That said if my aunty had balls etc.....

[Dodge]

SO we'd have reached the semi's even though bth teams to beat us for qulifiation were knocked out after finishing bottomw of their groups? (and we'd have been missing Shay Given....)

[mypost]

Anyway, we wouldn't have been in that group because we'd have been seeded differently to France.

As pointed out, France were unseeded, and using the criteria for the draw, we would have been in the same pot, and consequently the same group. Against the Africans, the Mexicans, and the red-card merchants, we'd have to fancy our chances of getting out of the group. Winning it is another question altogether, but we would have done a lot better than France did.

Whoever does win it, their "achievement" will be clouded due to how France got there. 31 countries qualified, 1 did not. Not by legal means anyway. It's a permanent stain on the entire tournament.

[seand]

Whoever does win it, their "achievement" will be clouded due to how France qualified. 31 countries qualified, 1 did not. Not by legal means anyway. It's a permanent stain on the entire tournament.

That's what they'll be saying in Germany, Spain, Holland or Uruguay alright. Let's not forget the permanent stain of Suarez's blatant cheating to knock out Ghana. Obviously not as stain-tastic as Henry, but it was only the quarter-finals after all.

Here are some stones.... build a bridge .... and get over it.

[pineapple stu]

SO we'd have reached the semi's even though bth teams to beat us for qulifiation were knocked out after finishing bottomw of their groups? (and we'd have been missing Shay Given....)

Richie Dunne too I think?

Might have made it out of the group. Definitely no further. The notion of us getting to the semis is almost as ridiculous as the idea that Henry's handball will forever cloud the eventual winners.

[Stuttgart88]

Regardless of what group we were in we could have gone either way in this WC. We’re certainly as well drilled without the ball as teams like Paraguay, Japan, Slovakia and even NZ have been so we’d have been no pushover. The last campaign, in my mind, laid a very strong foundation but gives as much cause for concern as it does for optimism: we concede too many careless, avoidable goals & we leave chances untaken. Only if these shortcomings were overcome would we have had a good WC.

We need to get smarter at each end of the pitch. I hope we’re not as threadbare in key positions next season, notably both full back positions, as we were at key points of the last campaign.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No. Though can see where the thinking comes from. But we're not as cute(or lucky) as Uruguay. Anyway, everybody knows we only have one big perfomance per tournament....

As for Argentina, maybe we'll have more insight on 12th August? Will Diego still be in charge? Really the AFA should use him as acheerleader, but nothing else.

[bennocelt]

Whats the point of this thread!! We couldnt beat a rubbish French team, or get one over the Italians.
Even Australia hammered us...........

[OwlsFan]

I'm almost certain we would have got out of Group 1. Our starting 11 against Uruguay would almost certainly have been Westwood, Kilbane, Dunne, St Ledger, O'Shea, Duff, Andrews, Whelan, Lawerence, Doyle and Keane. My guess is 0-0 v Uruguay. 1-1 Mexico. 2-0 win against South Africa. Probably second place to Uruguay and next up Argentina. I honestly believe we might have beaten them. We would have been their first "real" game. We are much stronger physically thean Mexico. And I feel we might have just shaded it. Then onto Germany....If only

Wasn't O'Shea injured and with the number of goalkeeping errors we have seen, I wouldn't have had huge faith in Westwood. Another 100 teams approx would have imagined they might have got to the semi-final as well having seen Uruguay (and indeed Paraguay). Australia slapped us around the place and yet they didn't qualify. Mexico would have beaten us and Uruguay are a better side than us. We would have done very well to have even survived the group.

We concede too many careless, avoidable goals & we leave chances untaken.

That's what average sides do and separates the good from the mundane

[barney]

As pointed out, France were unseeded, and using the criteria for the draw, we would have been in the same pot, and consequently the same group. Against the Africans, the Mexicans, and the red-card merchants, we'd have to fancy our chances of getting out of the group. Winning it is another question altogether, but we would have done a lot better than France did.

Whoever does win it, their "achievement" will be clouded due to how France got there. 31 countries qualified, 1 did not. Not by legal means anyway. It's a permanent stain on the entire tournament.

Assuming this isn't the wind up I suspect it is:

What a load of old twaddle. Shows a distinct lack of understanding of the game.

Reckon Uruguay don't consider themselves world champions of 1930 because they got a dodgy goal in the final and the Yugoslavs had a legitimate goal chalked off in the semis to put them 2-1 up?
Reckon Italy don't consider themselves world champions of 1934 because the Czechs accused the ref of being in Mussolini's pocket?
Reckon England don't consider themselves world champions of 1966 because Hurst's second goal likely didn't cross the line?
Reckon Argentina don't consider themselves world champions of 1986 because of The Hand of God?
etc. etc.

Those are just some major refereeing incidents off the top of my head that influenced the destination of the World Cup. Bad decisions happen. Just like life, you don't always get what you want or deserve. Winners accept they are part and parcel of the game we love and move on. Losers do what this country have been doing for the last 8 months.

[Wolfie]

Given our current level of organisation under Trapp - I'd like to think we'd have emerged from the group stage, at least.

Trapp would have had some concerted time on the build up to the finals to have had us very well organised on both attacking and defending "Set plays" for example. Our goals against Italy in Dublin were straight off the training ground and I think we'd have weighed in with a couple more in the finals.

I also think that Duff and Keane are always at least capable of combining and creating something from nothing and could well have delivered such a goal out there.

That said, I'm aware that we can conspire to shoot ourselves in the foot spectacularly in relation to concession of goals - but I'll.....ahem..... draw a conveniently discreet veil over all of that, thanks.

All academic and possibly a bit of wishful thinking but feck it anyway - why not????

There's many on here didn't give us an earthly of a chance against France before that game and we pushed them mighty close.

[Stuttgart88]

Even Australia hammered us

That was sooo last year.

We beat Paraguay recently. They did OK.

[Stuttgart88]

That's what average sides do and separates the good from the mundane

My point was that it's not a huge step up for us to become what you'd call a good side.

I'm not sure Mexico would have beaten us. They'd have monopolised possession but we'd have scored from some well taken set-pieces

[mypost]

That's what they'll be saying in Germany, Spain, Holland or Uruguay alright. Let's not forget the permanent stain of Suarez's blatant cheating to knock out Ghana. Obviously not as stain-tastic as Henry

get over it.

Won't be happening I'm afraid. Whatever is said in Holland, Uruguay, Germany, or Spain, they took part in the finals where one competitor qualified by breaking the rules. Not only did they break the rules, the culprit was not caught, nor suspended for doing it.

As for Suarez, he was caught and punished for his actions, therefore he didn't "cheat". He will have to sit it out tomorrow, and possibly the third/fourth play off. The fact Ghana can't score from 12 yards is not his business.

[Stuttgart88]

As for Suarez, he was caught and punished for his actions, therefore he didn't "cheat". He will have to sit it out tomorrow, and possibly the third/fourth play off. The fact Ghana can't score from 12 yards is not his business.

I'd say he was caught but that the punishment - for him individually and for his team - didn't fit the crime. Maybe it did as the rules stand, but morally it's about as extreme as it gets: certain winning goal denied by a clear & delibertate handball. His reaction "mine is the real hand of God" showed a total lack of humility and against this backdrop FIFA's decision to ban him for only one game was a massive (and easy) opportunity missed to show the world that it actually stands by its motto of "fair play". It makes them look like idiots.

I personally think that changing the rules to allow for a "penalty goal" when a goal is clearly denied by deliberate handball would actually be easy to implement.