Kenny v Bruton v Labour

**Mr A** · 17/06/2010, 10:48 AM

Live updates: http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0617/finegael.html

**Spudulika** · 17/06/2010, 11:03 AM

It seems, from reading the blurbs from the link, that there is now a mad dash to take control of the party to cause a general election to form a coalition with Labour. I don't trust Bruton, or any of his front bench lackeys. Better to disband the Dail and let Mary rule from the park :-)

**OneRedArmy** · 17/06/2010, 11:29 AM

Whatever this outcome this level of discord will seriously damage FG.

The divergence between the front bench and the rest of the parliamentary party is quite striking.

Even if Kenny wins, if as rumoured it goes 40-30 in his favour, he'll effectively have been propped up by the MEPs and Senators and is a dead man walking.

**Mr A** · 17/06/2010, 12:34 PM

Which is why I think in the end he won't. Kenny just about surviving with most of his front bench not willing to continue is probably their worst case scenario and they may just have the brains to avoid it.

**Mr A** · 17/06/2010, 4:06 PM

Kenny wins the vote. No further detail yet.

**Dodge** · 17/06/2010, 4:14 PM

My own guess is that Kenny resigns within weeks and opens the leadership vote up. Someone comes in to trump Bruton and "unite the party".

**dahamsta** · 17/06/2010, 4:26 PM

A very slim majority I'd guess. If Dodge is right, Bruton's support'll be injured in a big way. Coveney might get his chance after all.

**Spudulika** · 17/06/2010, 8:15 PM

Bruton had the wrong people backing him - Varadkar? He figures himself to be the next leader of the world! Looks all downhill for FG now, now election soon and FF limp on.

**mypost** · 18/06/2010, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

My own guess is that Kenny resigns within weeks and opens the leadership vote up.

Well that's the second heave he has survived in a matter of months. He isn't going to resign. He has a job to win the next election and help clear up the mess left behind. People complain about Kenny's lack of charisma and leadership skills, but that can be said of them all. He's the only one from 2007 still standing.

Find it disgraceful that a man that brought the party up from laughing stock status 8 years ago to the verge of top dog, is getting stabbed by his own. Find it equally disgraceful that rebel FF'ers who called for Cowen's head weeks ago, voted for him last Tuesday.

Politics for Loonies.

**bennocelt** · 18/06/2010, 6:15 AM

Originally Posted by mypost

Well that's the second heave he has survived in a matter of months. He isn't going to resign. He has a job to win the next election and help clear up the mess left behind. People complain about Kenny's lack of charisma and leadership skills, but that can be said of them all. He's the only one from 2007 still standing.

Find it disgraceful that a man that brought the party up from laughing stock status 8 years ago to the verge of top dog, is getting stabbed by his own. Find it equally disgraceful that rebel FF'ers who called for Cowen's head weeks ago, voted for him last Tuesday.

Politics for Loonies.

He lost the last election. In football it would be like missing a sitter!!!!!!!!!!!

**OneRedArmy** · 18/06/2010, 8:32 AM

Miriam Lord characterised it as a victory for those who eat their dinner in the middle of the day over the cappuccino set

**Fr Damo** · 18/06/2010, 9:16 AM

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by bennocelt

He lost the last election. In football it would be like missing a sitter!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm no FG..er but,

they had 30 seats before 2007, they ended up with 50 or a 66% increase. They also have majorities on most of the county councils (the grass roots I am sick of hearing about) so I don't think Kenny lost the last general election. IMO Labour lost the last one by standing still as FF lost seats.

Secondly, not going into Government was a blessing in disguise for FG (the election to lose was 2007) cos they would in s similar position now to the current lot in not having a pot to pi$$ in and run the country. Let nobody be niave to asssume that FG/Labour would have been able to borrow less in 2009 and 2010 if they were in power, the spending path for 2007 - 2012 was set in 2002 - 2007.

Does anyone think Kenny might actually have some metal about him and might be a good leader. All sides in the last battle say he is a man of principle, values and hard work and seems a pretty good campaigner. Maybe it is as some suggest, the media who don't like him!

**bennocelt** · 18/06/2010, 9:31 AM

[QUOTE=Fr Damo;1368941]

I'm no FG..er but,

they had 30 seats before 2007, they ended up with 50 or a 66% increase. They also have majorities on most of the county councils (the grass roots I am sick of hearing about) so I don't think Kenny lost the last general election. IMO Labour lost the last one by standing still as FF lost seats.

Secondly, not going into Government was a blessing in disguise for FG (the election to lose was 2007) cos they would in s similar position now to the current lot in not having a pot to pi$$ in and run the country. Let nobody be niave to asssume that FG/Labour would have been able to borrow less in 2009 and 2010 if they were in power, the spending path for 2007 - 2012 was set in 2002 - 2007.

Does anyone think Kenny might actually have some metal about him and might be a good leader. All sides in the last battle say he is a man of principle, values and hard work and seems a pretty good campaigner. Maybe it is as some suggest, the media who don't like him!

What country are you living in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**Spudulika** · 18/06/2010, 9:52 AM

Bennocelt, the best thing Kenny and FG did (as well as Labour) was not forming a government. It's proved that the Greens have suffered from going in with the hooks and crooks of FF and I'm pretty sure the FG will not call for an election until at least next year.

It will be an interesting front bench, and nobody knows if this has all be orchestrated - what are the odds that Bruton will be back on the front bench?

**bennocelt** · 18/06/2010, 9:59 AM

Not forming a government? When? They didnt even get a sniff..................
Yeah FF are a toxic - PDs, Greens, Labour years ago........................ but if there was an effective opposition. Enda Kenny is a decent man, but he is no leader, and the Labour party are all things to everyman and no backbone.............what bet that SF will go into coalition with FF in 2 years time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**dahamsta** · 18/06/2010, 9:59 AM

Surprised we have so many Kenny fanboys here. Perhaps I should be offering a free guide dog with every club membership?

**Fr Damo** · 18/06/2010, 10:30 AM

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by bennocelt

Not forming a government? When? They didnt even get a sniff..................
Yeah FF are a toxic - PDs, Greens, Labour years ago........................ but if there was an effective opposition. Enda Kenny is a decent man, but he is no leader, and the Labour party are all things to everyman and no backbone.............what bet that SF will go into coalition with FF in 2 years time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck with that.......

Originally Posted by dahamsta

Surprised we have so many Kenny fanboys here. Perhaps I should be offering a free guide dog with every club membership?

I'm off to give Roy Keane a hand walking triggs!

**bennocelt** · 18/06/2010, 10:51 AM

[QUOTE=Fr Damo;1368966]

Good luck with that.......

!

Not that I agree with that Damo just that FF always seem to survive and they can always rely on some party to go into coalition with them. Is there any way at all we can wipe out that 25% that always vote FF????????? Must be some vaccine out there

**OneRedArmy** · 18/06/2010, 10:51 AM

To say that the best thing FG did was not to go into Government is highly debatable. Some would argue its cowardice of the highest order to avoid taking tough decisions, and if we look across the water, the Tories and Libdems haven't shirked the challenge.

In any case, its fairly clear that the reason they didn't go into Government wasn't due to some clever strategy to let FF hang themselves a bit more, it was, as someone mentioned above, because Inda missed an open goal.

If you look back over the last 5 years at what we've "found out" about FF (I'll ignore the fact that the signs were there for a decade previously), combined with a weak Labour party, the PDs fading away (always brings a smile to my face) and SF support tailing off, it was all set up for FG, not only to get in, but to dominate. A Garrett Fitzgerald/John Bruton-led party would've walked the last election.

Inda may be capable underneath the robotic exterior, but the wider public haven't warmed to him, despite having the guts of a decade to do so. He's not going to change the wider opinion at this stage, so he's a deadweight anchor to FG. However well they do, they would do better without him.

**Spudulika** · 18/06/2010, 1:31 PM

I believe that if FG had taken power at the last election (when they could have put together a rainbow coalition again) they'd be out of power by now and destroyed. Put simply, everyone in Leinster House knows where the bodies are buried and everybody knows what's coming down. It's no surprise that every so often (I was watching a Dail debate, god preserve me, with Brian Lenihan defending bank policy) something leaks about another payment into AngloIrish or some such bankrupt government backer. When the dirt really comes out the country is going to be in shock, then trouble and it's far worse than what we have now.

I'm not a Kenny backer, far from it, I think he's a watery twit who is played to perfection by Nob Nation, but I don't see any other real leader of consequence in FG.

ORA, I said in an earlier post, in any decent democracy FF would be disbanded by now, they're to decent society as Tito was to humanity - polar opposites. I do know some FF'ers who are decent and good people, though I do not want them in power and have always refused to vote for them. The country is not going to change anytime soon because there is no appetite for change - no matter how the opposition perform. As bennocelt points out - until we get rid of that 25% we're stuck.