Cork City FORAS will be no more !

[sheao]

AFAIK the board are trying or will try to get the FAI to allocate the honours won by Cork City since 1984 to the "new" club. Seems a perfectly reasonable request to me.

Fiorentina went bust a few years back and a "new" club started in Serie C. I don't think anyone would seriously suggest that the history of the current Fiorentina club started only then or that the current club has no right to claim the history of Fiorentina up to when they went bust.

The history is currently in the hands of the liquidator and i think he is the person who the history can be bought off,just like the intellectual property of Cork City Fotbball club was last week .

[Schumi]

The history is currently in the hands of the liquidator and i think he is the person who the history can be bought off,just like the intellectual property of Cork City Fotbball club was last week .

So any club could just buy Cork City's history off the liquidator? Seems a bit strange.

[A face]

The history is currently in the hands of the liquidator and i think he is the person who the history can be bought off,just like the intellectual property of Cork City Fotbball club was last week .

So any club could just buy Cork City's history off the liquidator? Seems a bit strange.

Lads, the history is awarded to a club. There is no 'buying the history' involved. The club who owns the intellectual property rights could be deemed best placed to have the history awarded to it. There would probably be some other criteria as well. As far as i know thats how it works anyway.

[mr.untitled]

did CCFC (1984-2009) get cork hibs and cork celtics history, not stirring, just curious how it works

[total hoofball]

You speak as if the current board did nothing to save the club in the first place.

The club cheated, was punished, and now has been taken over by responsible people who have given the club to the people who genuinely care for it, and who have been highly fortunate to be able buy back the intellectual rights. Now its time to move on.

And it completely blows over your head

Necroclubs like Cork, Derry, Limerick can continue to spend money they don't have, win trophies, go bust, form a new franchise, buy intellectual properties and go off on the cycle again and again and again while clubs who don't have this luxury by owning real assets and wanting to protect their history and integrity have to live within their means and pay off their debts and all this distorts competition in the league by putting clubs at a competitive disadvantage: debt free Derry are spending more than any other first division club and are already dominating the division. This is disasterous for actual football clubs as the lax attitude from the FAI towards necroclubs is distorting competition in the league and hampering clubs in their efforts to progress on and off the pitch.

So many clowns here moan about the state of the Irish football and the non-existent sustainability over the past number of years but when necroclubs like Cork City receive the facility to continue the unsustainable madness and to rape their creditors as often as they wish here its all well done, pat on the back stuff. ****ing hypocrites.

If clubs die, they should stay dead.
If fans of deceased clubs want to form their own club that's fine.
But there needs to a regulation in the participation agreement that forbids any new applicant to the league from registering the same name, claiming history and other intellectual properties as former league members.

[total hoofball]

AFAIK the board are trying or will try to get the FAI to allocate the honours won by Cork City since 1984 to the "new" club. Seems a perfectly reasonable request to me.

Fiorentina went bust a few years back and a "new" club started in Serie C. I don't think anyone would seriously suggest that the history of the current Fiorentina club started only then or that the current club has no right to claim the history of Fiorentina up to when they went bust.

In Cork, does anyone understand the concept of death?

ACF Fiorentina is a different club to the former club that died in 2002. ACF's history started in 2002.

[Mr A]

Totally agree that it should not be allowed- but until there are rules against it (and as I've said before, if licensing isn't there to prevent clubs from walking away from their debts and then reappearing as if little or nothing happened- what the hell IS it for?) then you can't blame clubs for doing it.

[A face]

did CCFC (1984-2009) get cork hibs and cork celtics history, not stirring, just curious how it works

No, because they were different entities and not a continuation of the club. CCFC were founded since 1984 and have existed since then up until this day.

[mr.untitled]

so CCFC (the one founded in 1984) went in to examinership twice, went bust and is still alive?

As Mr.A says, If there are no rules against it, I cant blame cork for doing it but just when I was beginning to think the FAI had things under control, this comes up. No where else would this be allowed.

[A face]

No where else would this be allowed.

I dunno, i think its quite common place as far as i know. Agreed that its not ideal and does nothing to stop the cycle of 'boom bust' clubs but the fact still remains, City, by the mechanisms that are available to us have been allowed to continue the club on.

[Lim till i die]

No where else would this be allowed.

Happens literally every three or four days in Italy.

You try and tell a Neapolitan that Napoli never actually won the Scudetto see how far you get.

[Scrufil]

I wonder would it be prudent to retain the FORAS setup and name and keep it in reserve in case the club does end up in the mire? History has a strange habit of repeating itself down that neck of the woods and it would be nice to know that there would be a fall back option if ever disaster struck again.

[corkery]

Yeah- I should have said 'everything they wanted' rather than just 'everything'.

Yes, thats the way liquidation works. Why would someone want to pay someone else's bills?

[HammerNThongs]

In Cork, does anyone understand the concept of death?

ACF Fiorentina is a different club to the former club that died in 2002. ACF's history started in 2002.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACF_Fiorentina

Educate yourself. I'm not saying it makes it right, but this situation is not unique to the LoI surprisingly.

[Ezeikial]

Totally agree that it should not be allowed- but until there are rules against it (and as I've said before, if licensing isn't there to prevent clubs from walking away from their debts and then reappearing as if little or nothing happened- what the hell IS it for?) then you can't blame clubs for doing it.

so CCFC (the one founded in 1984) went in to examinership twice, went bust and is still alive?

As Mr.A says, If there are no rules against it, I cant blame cork for doing it but just when I was beginning to think the FAI had things under control, this comes up. No where else would this be allowed.

I really don't understand this attitude. The fact that there does not appear to be FAI rules to prevent this, it does not make the actions of Cork Foras right. It's morally wrong, and Cork Foras should take responsibility / blame for their own actions.

I can understand the emotional attachment to the Cork City name, but a shrug of the shoulders and pointing the "blame" at the FAI is convenient (and justified) but misses the point. Shame on you Foras - I thought all the rethoric last season was about decency and doing the right thing?

[pineapple stu]

It's a few lines on a history section of a website. In the bigger picture, what does it really matter? The liquidation wasn't FORAS' fault. The only thing they've done wrong was to try and blackmail the FAI into giving them a Premier Division spot.

[Ezeikial]

It's a few lines on a history section of a website. In the bigger picture, what does it really matter? The liquidation wasn't FORAS' fault. The only thing they've done wrong was to try and blackmail the FAI into giving them a Premier Division spot.

I agree with you that on the face of it whether Cork FORAS claim the history of Cork City and use the name/colours/crest etc does not really make much practicial difference.The creditors remain stung, the credibility of the league remains tarnished, sponsors remain cautious, and of course Dundalk remain in the Europa League.

FORAS may be rubbing up the noses of local creditors but thats their own lookout.

The main problem is that it is another visable statement that the downsides or risks of the Boom or Bust model are fairly modest (for clubs without assets).

It also bugs me that there appears to be an amnesty for the morally bankruptcy of FORAS in taking this action

[pineapple stu]

The main problem is that it is another visable statement that the downsides or risks of the Boom or Bust model are fairly modest (for clubs without assets).

They've gotten relegated and don't look like coming up this year. That's a decent start, I think. Are they banned from playing in Europe for a few years?

Local trust must surely be through the floor too, so you'd imagine there'll be less goodwill (= less sponsorship) and people will be looking for cash up front, both of which will hurt. (Granted, I said this after Arkaga Cork went belly up too).

I don't see what refusing to recognise the 1992/93 title win will do to improve things. Likewise, I don't see what else really can be done to punish Cork more (bar maybe a points deduction at the start of this season, or the obvious notion of starting back in the A League).

I don't think you've said anything to back up the idea that FORAS are rubbing the noses of their creditors, or that their actions are morally bankrupt.

[micls]

so CCFC (the one founded in 1984) went in to examinership twice, went bust and is still alive?

As Mr.A says, If there are no rules against it, I cant blame cork for doing it but just when I was beginning to think the FAI had things under control, this comes up. No where else would this be allowed.

CCFC was also liquidated in the 90's which seems to be consistently ignored because FAI rules were different at the time, I don't seethe difference now.

I really don't understand this attitude. The fact that there does not appear to be FAI rules to prevent this, it does not make the actions of Cork Foras right. It's morally wrong, and Cork Foras should take responsibility / blame for their own actions.

I can understand the emotional attachment to the Cork City name, but a shrug of the shoulders and pointing the "blame" at the FAI is convenient (and justified) but misses the point. Shame on you Foras - I thought all the rethoric last season was about decency and doing the right thing?

They've gotten relegated and don't look like coming up this year. That's a decent start, I think. Are they banned from playing in Europe for a few years?

Local trust must surely be through the floor too, so you'd imagine there'll be less goodwill (= less sponsorship) and people will be looking for cash up front, both of which will hurt. (Granted, I said this after Arkaga Cork went belly up too).

Spot on.

We are lucky in a way that many of the little creditor stung in liquidation are actually city fans and a lot of them FORAS members. Despite getting hurt by the old regime they are part of the new start.

In fact a large amount of our creditors from the last regime are back on board with us this year, Hummell, Sports gear direct, express etc etc, which says alot. They don't seem half as annoyed with the actions of Foras as some foot.ie fans are on their behalf.

[micls]

I really don't understand this attitude. The fact that there does not appear to be FAI rules to prevent this, it does not make the actions of Cork Foras right. It's morally wrong, and Cork Foras should take responsibility / blame for their own actions.

I can understand the emotional attachment to the Cork City name, but a shrug of the shoulders and pointing the "blame" at the FAI is convenient (and justified) but misses the point. Shame on you Foras - I thought all the rethoric last season was about decency and doing the right thing?

Can you clarify what exactly you think we've done wrong?

We're working with most of our creditors from last year, we're running a tight sustainable budget but somehow daring to use Cork City Football club instead of Cork City Foras Co-op is somehow a big crime?

We have always maintained we would be the same club, as happened in the 90's(obviously some will disagree). To the fans, there's a lot more to a club than the current FAI rules.

Is it awful that the creditors got screwed, some of them our members? Yes. Is it a disgrace that Coughlan got away with it for as long as he did? Yes. But we did everything we could to prevent that, unfortunately we couldn't. We're doing what we can now, to rebuild trust and rebuild our club from the bottom up.