Americans Killed in Iraq

[coyney]

Would you say the same thing if were irish guys working for an American contractor as i'd guess good chance some irish lads over there.

What if some irish engineers or nurses were bombed in Saudi Arabia? Would it be their own fault for propping up the Saudi Royalty regime?

the contract workers are mostly ex-american servicemen and the 4 guys who were killed last week were ex special forces. their over there to make a killing in more ways than one...

[patsh]

The "contractors" were ex-soldiers, employed for their "security" knowledge as much as anything else.
We are not talking about a work gang from a Wallace building site.
They were identified by their "dog-tags", so these guys were no wide-eyed innocents, they knew the risks, and were being suitably recompensed for it.
NOTHING excuses the kind of savage death they recieved, but they knew very well just how dangerous a job they took on.


Why some people are so shocked by the savagery of this killings, but seem to not bat an eyelid at the end result of the sickeningly named "Shock and Awe", is something I do not understand.

[Éanna]

pretty much exactly what I was trying to say patsh, but you put it better than I managed!

[liam88]

[QUOTE=patsh]
NOTHING excuses the kind of savage death they recievedQUOTE]
Enough said.

[liamon]

Why some people are so shocked by the savagery of this killings, but seem to not bat an eyelid at the end result of the sickeningly named "Shock and Awe", is something I do not understand.

Perhaps it's because we are told to admire the clean technological warfare of the West, while we despise the "blood on your hands" type savage response of the poor. I remember everyone raving about the magnificent, wonderful cruise missiles that the West used in the first gulf war. Yet we all deplore the killing when it's done by hand.

It's all in the presentation and news is heavily biased. And the general public are sheep that can be lead so easily. Manufacturing consent. Journalism is dead.

[ccfcman]

[QUOTE=Éanna]. I'm not defending the killing of anyone, And while I don't agree with the phrase legitimate targets, I do think some targets are more legitimate than others.[ QUOTE]
which targets are they?

[pete]

Why some people are so shocked by the savagery of this killings, but seem to not bat an eyelid at the end result of the sickeningly named "Shock and Awe", is something I do not understand.

Just cos Iraqis die horribly is hardly an excuse to be happy Americans dying similarily.

[liam88]

I know this sounds horrible and it is I know, but there is a phycological thing which makes the murder of Irish/English/Americans seem so much worse TO SOME PEOPLE than the murder of Iraquis, Palastinians etc.
I'm not saying that anybody is right or wrong here and not taking either side, just pointing out how the mind works to some people even if they don't want it to be that way.
For years the news has been plastered with people dying in the Middle East and not that many people in the West let it affect their day to day lives.
The "Shock and Awe" was the talk of our school but most people just carried on with their learning.
Then, the day when the first British soldiers were killed, it was a helicopter crash, the school went mad, the fences were torn down, hundreds just sat on the playground instead of going to lessons, people kicked down fences and ran out of school-the whole thing went wild and it took the killing of two British to provoke this.
We dicussed this the subsequent student council meeting and although we all agreeed that it sounds horrible that people find the killing of Westeners more horrific we also agreed that that was the case.
Interesting ey.

[Éanna]

I know this sounds horrible and it is I know, but there is a phycological thing which makes the murder of Irish/English/Americans seem so much worse TO SOME PEOPLE than the murder of Iraquis, Palastinians etc.

there's no doubt about that at all

[Peadar]

Does anyone know exactly how many US service people have lost their lives in Iraq since the conflict began last year?
The seem to be loosing 10 a day lately.

[pete]

Seen figures at weekend & think its 800+ dead, 12,000 or 18,000 medicational evacuations all since the invasion begun.

Estimate 13,000 Iraqi civilians dead.

[pete]

From CNN.com

There have been 637 U.S. troops killed in the Iraq war, 447 from hostile fire, 190 in non-hostile incidents. Of those, 498 were killed after President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1.

[Éanna]

. I'm not defending the killing of anyone, And while I don't agree with the phrase legitimate targets, I do think some targets are more legitimate than others.

which targets are they?

a lot of people will disagree with me, but to be perfectly honest- if you invade someone elses country and throw the place into chaos, and shoot on demonstrators when they tell you to leave them to run their own country, I don't think you can have much cause for complaint if they start shooting back.

[Éanna]

Would you say the same thing if were irish guys working for an American contractor as i'd guess good chance some irish lads over there.

yes and yes. you can't waltz into someone else's country all guns blazing and expect a hug and a pint to welcome you.

[liamon]

yes and yes. you can't waltz into someone else's country all guns blazing and expect a hug and a pint to welcome you.

I don't know many nurses/engineers working in Saudi Arabia who brought guns with them.
Do they deserve to die for working in the Middle East and being from Europe?
If so, don't any Arabs who live in Madrid deserve to die? C'mon Eanna, you can't be serious.

[Jim Smith]

I don't know many nurses/engineers working in Saudi Arabia who brought guns with them.

These guys were "security consultants" in what is effectively a war zone. They went into an area where they knew that a significant portion of the population hate the Americans and their allies with a passion that is hard for someone from the West to understand. They knew the risk they were taking and were happy to take the money. Their situation is a bit different to nurses/engineers working in Saudi Arabia.

[patsh]

Just cos Iraqis die horribly is hardly an excuse to be happy Americans dying similarily.

Now now, pete, at least address the issue I raised....
Where in my post did I say anything about one death excusing another?
And anything about being "happy"??
Read my post again, and if you have any comment on that, please tell me.
Do not try to twist my words to suit your own ends.

[Duncan Gardner]

Yes, I can think of numerous armed conflicts featuring illegal US intervention (ie, almost any of them apart from the one Davros is alluding to)

[Aberdonian Stu]

Don't want to get dragged into the nitty gritty just want to point out the point about the numbers that died. Of those 190 are non-hostile. This one of the great needless tragedies of warfare, the number of accidental or non-conflict related deaths in warfare is always shocking when you look at the sheer numbers but as it generally makes up just a small percentage (although not seemingly on this occasion) it generally goes unnoticed.

[liamon]

Just to take this a stage further, there are now multiple abductions taking place. Some of these people are aid workers, who went there to help the local people. Do they deserve to die?