Conor Henderson (M free agent b.1991)

[The Fly]

That's funny. I could have sworn he was making appearances in big games and winning medals. 60 appearances in his 3 full seasons at Man Utd as a young player. I wish some more of our players could sit around and do that.

Most of those appearances came as a substitute, and nearly half were in the FA and League Cups.

He was 24 before regular football came his way with his switch to Everton.

[Predator]

Most of those appearances came as a substitute, and nearly half were in the FA and League Cups.

He was 24 before regular football came his way with his switch to Everton.

I don't think that it is a mark against Gibson that he was a bit-part player at Manchester United. He may not have been a mainstay, but he did appear in big games and won medals. That will stand to him.

[The Fly]

I don't think that it is a mark against Gibson that he was a bit-part player at Manchester United. He may not have been a mainstay, but he did appear in big games and won medals. That will stand to him.

What is the true merit of medals if the individual's contribution to their attainment has been paltry? If I were in Gibson's position I'd probably have them tucked away in a sock drawer.

The real mark against Gibson is that he has made under 100 appearances in the league to date and he's 25.

[Predator]

What is the true merit of medals if the individual's contribution to their attainment has been paltry? If I were in Gibson's position I'd probably have them tucked away in a sock drawer.

The real mark against Gibson is that he has made under 100 appearances in the league to date and he's 25.

You know what they say, it's a team game. Each piece has its part to play, however seemingly paltry that may be. I suppose that is why clubs and competitions have separate individual awards*.

*Gibson's individual awards (taken from Wiki)
Jimmy Murphy Young Player of the Year (1): 2005–06
FAI Young International Player of the Year (1): 2009
FAI International Goal of the Year (1): 2011 vs. Wales

We are wading into new territory here, but needless to say, if Henderson does manage to emulate Gibson's meagre efforts, then I'll be happy. Obviously I want more from him. We wait and see.

[The Fly]

You know what they say, it's a team game. Each piece has its part to play, however seemingly paltry that may be.

That's a given I suppose, but if I were a professional sportsman I would take very little comfort from it. It's just a cushion for those who lack ambition.

We are wading into new territory here, but needless to say, if Henderson does manage to emulate Gibson's meagre efforts, then I'll be happy. Obviously I want more from him. We wait and see.

In the context of the national side I agree. In the grand scheme of things however, Gibson has been a disappointment. The only caveat to that is the 'up till now' qualification. It's my sincere hope that his time with Everton proves successful.

[tommy_c12000]

Jesus Christ lads, all I wanted to know is why Henderson is not in the first team squad for Coventry. . .

[Irwin3]

What is the true merit of medals if the individual's contribution to their attainment has been paltry? If I were in Gibson's position I'd probably have them tucked away in a sock drawer.

The real mark against Gibson is that he has made under 100 appearances in the league to date and he's 25.

I don't understand why you feel the need to belittle him so much. He won 2 league cup medals and 1 PL medal. For the league cup campaigns he contributed hugely playing most games and scoring a few goals along the way as well. We all know he was a squad player. Some of our current players can't even get to Gibson's appearance ratio and he was a young player at the best club around!

Several injuries along the way haven't helped his appearance count either; granted this probably only cost him a handful of games during his Man Utd years. This calendar year he's probably missed around 15-20 games for Everton already through injury.

There is also a quantity vs. quality argument to be made. Gibson has started Champions League QF+SF, League Cup Final, FA Cup SFs. I think this has helped him. During his 3 full Man Utd season he could have got what 30 more games or so at a lesser club (no guarantees over regular football for various reasons).

At 24 he moved to get regular football (would have still been 23 if the summer move to Sunderland had gone through). That under 100 league appearances is only a mark against him because you think it is. I don't feel the need to judge a player on some arbitrary number you've plucked out of the air.

[The Fly]

I don't understand why you feel the need to belittle him so much.

I'm not belittling him. I'm just making a legitimate judgement call on his career to date.

There is also a quantity vs. quality argument to be made. Gibson has started Champions League QF+SF, League Cup Final, FA Cup SFs. I think this has helped him. During his 3 full Man Utd season he could have got what 30 more games or so at a lesser club (no guarantees over regular football for various reasons).

I think his prolonged stay at United harmed him rather than helped him. There wasn't exactly a clamour for his signature when he decided to leave.

At 24 he moved to get regular football (would have still been 23 if the summer move to Sunderland had gone through). That under 100 league appearances is only a mark against him because you think it is. I don't feel the need to judge a player on some arbitrary number you've plucked out of the air.

I'm not 'plucking it out of the air' to justify a personal prejudice against him, as I don't have one. My view on Gibson is one that has accrued through watching him for a number of seasons now. That's all. I don't feel the need to blow smoke up his arse just because he's Irish.

[Irwin3]

Pull the other one. How is your statement not belittling. I'll remind you what you said:

"What is the true merit of medals if the individual's contribution to their attainment has been paltry? If I were in Gibson's position I'd probably have them tucked away in a sock drawer."

As I pointed out above he made a very significant contribution to both League Cup winning campaigns. But according to you he should be ashamed of this success. Sure. Typical begrudger statement if I ever saw one.

Moving from the 1st/2nd best team in the country to the 7th wasn't such a bad move was it. How would you know what other teams were interested in him apart from consulting your sources in the gossip columns.

[Paddy Garcia]

Jesus Christ lads, all I wanted to know is why Henderson is not in the first team squad for Coventry. . .

yeah.......... ya big troll....

[The Fly]

Pull the other one. How is your statement not belittling. I'll remind you what you said:

"What is the true merit of medals if the individual's contribution to their attainment has been paltry? If I were in Gibson's position I'd probably have them tucked away in a sock drawer."

That's what I would do if I were in his position. Although, I was referring more specifically to his League championship medals.

It's a sentiment I would apply to any other player in a similar position.

As I pointed out above he made a very significant contribution to both League Cup winning campaigns. But according to you he should be ashamed of this success. Sure. Typical begrudger statement if I ever saw one.

I never stated that Gibson should be ashamed of his medal haul in the League Cup.

Simply put, it's the competition that United routinely field weakened teams in. It's not taken seriously.

Moving from the 1st/2nd best team in the country to the 7th wasn't such a bad move was it. How would you know what other teams were interested in him apart from consulting your sources in the gossip columns.

As he was sold for such a small sum, around £1million, I think we can take the various reports at the time to be true.

[Irwin3]

No. The League Cup is a competition that Man Utd often play their squad players and youngsters in, in the earlier rounds. Take a look at their lineup http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Fo...ague_Cup_Final here. Looks like they took the final pretty seriously. Keep trying to belittle it though. I wonder if Robbie Keane hides his League Cup medal away in a drawer somewhere?

Having 6 months on his contract clearly had nothing to do with the fee...

[The Fly]

No. The League Cup is a competition that Man Utd often play their squad players and youngsters in, in the earlier rounds. Take a look at their lineup http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Fo...ague_Cup_Final here. Looks like they took the final pretty seriously. Keep trying to belittle it though. I wonder if Robbie Keane hides his League Cup medal away in a drawer somewhere?

I don't know what he does with them, but I've yet to hear of him, or any other player for that matter, boast of their success in the League Cup.

Having 6 months on his contract clearly had nothing to do with the fee...

...and only Everton was aware of this? Moyes is a crafty one.

[Irwin3]

Yeah, because it's something to be ashamed off and forgotten about. We've already covered that.

Going over old ground. How do you know who was interested or why do you care? If the 7th best team comes in for me and I live in the NW of england, it's a pretty easy decision to make.

[The Fly]

Yeah, because it's something to be ashamed off and forgotten about. We've already covered that.

Are you a bit dim? I never stated that Darron should be ashamed of his success with Man Utd in cup competitions.

Going over old ground. How do you know who was interested or why do you care? If the 7th best team comes in for me and I live in the NW of england, it's a pretty easy decision to make.

Good for you.

I'll repeat what I stated earlier, I wish Darron every success with Everton. The lack of interest and the fee, notwithstanding his contract situation, merely reflects the fact that he wasn't highly rated.

[Irwin3]

Thanks for trying to insult me. I'm so dim that I appear to understand what you say better than you do. Need I remind you again of your own words:

"What is the true merit of medals if the individual's contribution to their attainment has been paltry? If I were in Gibson's position I'd probably have them tucked away in a sock drawer."

Obviously you hide away in a sock drawer your most proud memorabilia. This clearly doesn't infer that it's something to be ashamed off...

[The Fly]

"What is the true merit of medals if the individual's contribution to their attainment has been paltry? If I were in Gibson's position I'd probably have them tucked away in a sock drawer."

Which I later stated was in more specific regard to any league championship medal. Gibson's contributions to United's league campaigns were minimal.

[Irwin3]

I agree that his direct contribution to the league campaigns was minimal. The rules are that if you make 10 appearances then you get a medal. It's a squad game. Squad players at Man Utd play the cup games and certain european ties to ensure that no player burns out so that they're in a position to challenge in all competitions. You could say he was near the bottom of the ladder of those who achieved the league medal but he still met all criteria to earn it and it sounds like more begrudgery to say he should be ashamed of his league winners medal. I doubt that Evans, Valencia, Fabio or Owen and the likes who played in a similar amount of games have their medals hidden away.

[The Fly]

I agree that his direct contribution to the league campaigns was minimal. The rules are that if you make 10 appearances then you get a medal. It's a squad game. Squad players at Man Utd play the cup games and certain european ties to ensure that no player burns out so that they're in a position to challenge in all competitions. You could say he was near the bottom of the ladder of those who achieved the league medal but he still met all criteria to earn it and it sounds like more begrudgery to say he should be ashamed of his league winners medal. I doubt that Evans, Valencia, Fabio or Owen and the likes who played in a similar amount of games have their medals hidden away.

Once again, I have never claimed that Gibson should be ashamed of his league winners medal. I merely stated, or rather inferred, that if I were in his position it would have little meaning for me since my contribution to its attainment was minimal.

Let's just leave at that. I'm sure everyone else is bored of our exchanges.

[paul_oshea]

Fly have the final say and then say lets finish. I love that.