Passport Office.

[the 12 th man]

Can't see another thread about this but now there's now a threat of all out strike if the Govt dock their pay for not doing their job (what do they expect?).

People are being put through the ringer just trying to get a passport.

I know they've had pay cuts in the P O but who hasn't suffered a loss of income at this stage?

[Fr Damo]

If it can be proven that staff didn't carry out the essential duties and in their failure to carry out those duties members of the public had to incure losses related to missed flights, cancelled holidays etc, then they should be sacked IMO. The local social welfare office will have the names of many suitable applicants for those vacant posts!

I'm all for a work to rule but it seems in this case perhaps their level of activity in that particular department was closer to a strike than a work to rule and it seems only now it is coming to light. I do agree with one beard on the radio this morning though who basically said the ysytem was clogged by the the public who are being scared into thinking they need to start queing now for a passport that doesn't expire for a month or so. If there was proper planning only passports required within the next 3 days should be processed and this type of qualification should be carried out in a daily fashion, and in a much safer enviornment.

Priceless Joe Duffy fodder.

[Spudulika]

This is a strange one, is the media whipping up fury against the unions (to bring them into line) or is it just pushing sales? Watching an oireachtas committee discussing it now, they're making excellent points about tightened security etc., and Ryanair will not consider photo id (Mick Noonan says they're "not very patriotic") as a proper document. But is that legal?

[John83]

If you're going to strike, strike. This attempt to have the best of both worlds is just ****ing everyone off. How much sympathy do they think they'd get if they were all fired this afternoon?

[dahamsta]

Ryanair have rejected photo IDs for ages, I'd be surprised if the EU hadn't bitchslapped them by now if it was illegal. I'd guess that the free travel rule applies to public bodies and agencies, not private companies.

While I have sympathy for the passport applicants, they are ultimately the minority of people being screwed over here, and I'd imagine most of the travel involved is ultimately non-essential.

EDIT: I don't agree with work-to-rule not being an option, in fact I think it should be the default; all day every day. My wife teaches an adult-ed class and gets paid - badly - by the hour, but she doesn't get paid to write or correct exams, or deal with students out of class. She should be.

God help the primary school kids if the teachers actually stopped buying classroom supplies out of their own pockets. I couldn't believe that was happening when I first heard of it. As someone said on the radio yesterday, the 3rd level education system would literally fall apart if that was work to rule.

Why is unpaid work ok? is the question that should be asked.

adam

[John83]

I could have picked it up wrong Adam, but I'm under the impression that this goes significantly beyond what could be considered work to rule.

[passinginterest]

I could have picked it up wrong Adam, but I'm under the impression that this goes significantly beyond what could be considered work to rule.

There's a serious issue with defining what constitutes a work to rule and I think it's being stretched to it's limits in certain areas. Apparently one of the biggest issues in the passport office is moving boxes of applications from one desk to another. One of the things banned under the work to rule is lifting any kind of boxes unless specialist manual handling training has been given, in the passport office this means service attendants being called every time a box needs to be moved when clerical staff had always done it themselves previously.

[OneRedArmy]

How do you define whats an expected part of the job and whats above and beyond?

Presumably its not in individual contracts? Is it with reference to manuals or previously agreed practices documented between management and unions?

[dahamsta]

I'd need to hear the specifics, I've only heard about it on the radio thus far, and to my mind there's an awful lot of guff going around about this. Like the dummy outside one of the offices yersterday after the bomb scare, that commented: "If they're not answering the phones, how did they hear about the bomb scare." I mean, that's someone that should be in care like.

[passinginterest]

In my own area in my Department the work to rule has had a negligible effect. The two afternoons a week we can't answer the phones is a minor inconvenience and seems pretty futile when 99% of our calls are from our own staff anyway, it might be argued that answering the phone is a key part of doing the job but with email and good old fashioned letters it shouldn't hinder any area too badly. The ban on overtime is having a fairly big effect in other areas, but overtime is not a requirement so no rules are being broken. I have heard stories that a lot of what's going on in the Passport Office is closer to strike action than work to rule but it's hearsay really. They've been badly affected by 2 of the 3 printing machines going on the blink in the same week and some extremely poor management of the time and resources that are available. The front line staff there are having an appaling time of it and I'd have a lot of sympathy for them, I've already heard of people being spat at and that sort of thing is unacceptable, nobody really wants to be in this situation but the unions can't back down now, there is no doubt the Government cuts were unfairly weighted against the lower paid and withouth this protest similar cuts would have been inevitable.

[Dodge]

There's a serious issue with defining what constitutes a work to rule and I think it's being stretched to it's limits in certain areas. Apparently one of the biggest issues in the passport office is moving boxes of applications from one desk to another. One of the things banned under the work to rule is lifting any kind of boxes unless specialist manual handling training has been given, in the passport office this means service attendants being called every time a box needs to be moved when clerical staff had always done it themselves previously.

The real issue is that the PPO has gone from 3 service attendants to one (as 2 retired and they can't replace them due to recruitment freeze)

Clerical staff had been doing it "to get the job done" but they've been told to only do their own job (fair enough). The lack of access to a conter service is a complete red herring as I think its been closed for 4 half days (plus one for the flood). The vast majority of applications are sent by swift post. The box issue has slowed down the system but the real killer has been the ban on overtime. PLenty of staff have retured/career break etc (as the Govt wished) and haven't been replaced.

SO there's less staff, doing less hours (normal week) and certain systems have failed. But at last count they were saying it was taking 20 working days. I don't think thats an unreasonable service (Most countries ask for 6-8 weeks to process)

I also have very little sympathy for people who booked holidays months ago and applied recently (klikewise people who lost their pssports and didn't notice)


I know several who wokr in the office (union/non union) and the situation isn't great for any of them

[Macy]

A work to rule is fairly wide ranging, but even if not maning desks isn't part of what you consider a work to rule, it is a legitimate form of industrial action. It's up to management how they chose to handle that with regard to pay - it is legitmate industrial action though with the required notice served, for the "sack the lot of them" brigade, and Shatter and other knobs saying the CPSU should be sued and the workers sacked.

Overtime being banned, and effecting the service to the degree claimed shows they're cronically understaffed.

I'm not in, and wouldn't have a lot of time for the CPSU, but yet again the public fall for Government/ IBEC wheeze. This is the 4th or 5th week of this action. It has only become an issue since Management choose to create panic amongst the public last friday - plenty of those interviewed are weeks away from travel and have been panicked in quueing (iirc the stupid bint who was going on hunger strike wasn't even travelling until next week!). Add to that the Machines breaking down and you have more of the cause of the queues than the actual action. Management still won't organise the queue to prioritise the work (most definitely not the job of a CO). The public are being held to ransom not by the unions, but by the management. Probably to try and influence the ongoing talks - I'm not sure to what aim, it won't help agreement anyway, so yet again the Government not acting in good faith in negotiations.

Anyway, CPSU have issued strike notice, so lets see how people get on with getting a passport if there's an all out strike.

[OneRedArmy]

A work to rule is fairly wide ranging, but even if not maning desks isn't part of what you consider a work to rule, it is a legitimate form of industrial action. It's up to management how they chose to handle that with regard to pay - it is legitmate industrial action though with the required notice served, for the "sack the lot of them" brigade, and Shatter and other knobs saying the CPSU should be sued and the workers sacked.

Overtime being banned, and effecting the service to the degree claimed shows they're cronically understaffed.

I'm not in, and wouldn't have a lot of time for the CPSU, but yet again the public fall for Government/ IBEC wheeze. This is the 4th or 5th week of this action. It has only become an issue since Management choose to create panic amongst the public last friday - plenty of those interviewed are weeks away from travel and have been panicked in quueing (iirc the stupid bint who was going on hunger strike wasn't even travelling until next week!). Add to that the Machines breaking down and you have more of the cause of the queues than the actual action. Management still won't organise the queue to prioritise the work (most definitely not the job of a CO). The public are being held to ransom not by the unions, but by the management. Probably to try and influence the ongoing talks - I'm not sure to what aim, it won't help agreement anyway, so yet again the Government not acting in good faith in negotiations.

Anyway, CPSU have issued strike notice, so lets see how people get on with getting a passport if there's an all out strike.

But what defines the "rule" in the "working to rule"? I'm still none the wiser.

I do think there's a huge amount of hypocrisy from many of the outraged who would assert their own right to action, but think the passport office shouldn't have that right.

Also, similar to Adam's comments about people buying new cars, I'm somewhat surprised by the number of people taking "once in a lifetime" holidays costing €4k or €5k+, given the current economic environment.

[Dodge]

But what defines the "rule" in the "working to rule"? I'm still none the wiser.

Each civil servant has a clearly defined "Role Profile" which sets out the tasks they are expected to complete each year. They range from one off projects to day to day stuff. its part of the wider Public Service's "Performance management" and its the document that staff are assessed on each year (for probation, promotion, increments etc etc). The work to rule in my old Department is that you must complete these listed tasks, but nothing that hasn't been previously designated as "your job". The other parts of the work to rule are not to do the work of absent colleagues (either your own grade, or other grades). This has been a huge issue in the PPO apparently in that COs were undertaking the work of grades above them as those positions remained vacant.

Also, similar to Adam's comments about people buying new cars, I'm somewhat surprised by the number of people taking "once in a lifetime" holidays costing €4k or €5k+, given the current economic environment.

My favourite voxpop was a guy on RTE radio who was complaining about "high paid civil servants holding workers like myself to ransom". He was asked where he was going; on a €12k Cruise...

And once again, I've yet to see/hear one interviewer ask anyone in the queue when they booked their flights. Without being facetious, if I was heading to the Carribean, I'd be checking my documents months in advance

[saint dog]

i agree with most that whats going on in the office is a disgrace
however i also agree with dodge on the fact that there are people on radio shows saying their saving for the last 18months to go to disneyland with the kids next week
surely the first thing you would organise and not the last is your passport , without it your holiday is nul and void

[endabob1]

i agree with most that whats going on in the office is a disgrace
however i also agree with dodge on the fact that there are people on radio shows saying their saving for the last 18months to go to disneyland with the kids next week
surely the first thing you would organise and not the last is your passport , without it your holiday is nul and void

People are thick, My niece went to Florida last year and there was a family, mum, dad and 2 kids, they only had a passport for the one kid, the 2nd was on the mothers passport which hasn't been allowed for years, they were turned back with child in tears... they must have got an emergency sorteed because they were on the same flight back, but even so....

[Macy]

And once again, I've yet to see/hear one interviewer ask anyone in the queue when they booked their flights. Without being facetious, if I was heading to the Carribean, I'd be checking my documents months in advance

I've heard it asked a couple of times, haven't heard it answered though (and most definitely haven't heard an interviewer/ voxpop gopher push for an answer)...

[Dodge]

Oh look at that. Queue gone. walked by it on my lunch hour and not a single person outside.

Looks like Foreign Affairs statement caused more panic thatn anything else

[Roadend]

Maybe they went down to the Israeli Embassy to get their passports?

[juan]

What a fantastic initiative by the Government to keep people holidaying in Ireland. Genius