Who the hell is buying new cars?

[pineapple stu]

I'm in the same boat as dahamsta, so his reply is mine too.

(And I get Dodge's point, I just don't get it, if you know what I mean...)

[Dodge]

There's taste and there's flushing money down the toilet.

But some would prefer the new car to the money in the bank

same argument can be made for food. Some people think nothing of spending €100 on a steak, while others would prefer to spend €4 on a steak from tesco "Sure it'll only keep you going the same time...."

IT all depends on what you want to achieve from your purchase. As SkStu posted above, buying a new car isn't simply buying a mode of transport for some.

(and I'll point out I've never bought a car less than 3 years old)

[dahamsta]

You're taking us around in circles, as usual. I love a steak as much as the next man, but anyone that spends €100 on one needs punching in the face. There's enjoying nice things and there's being a dick.

(This extends the original discussion to it's limit and it's not my point. Buying a new car doesn't make you a dick. It remains something I will never understand though.)

[osarusan]

Doesn't this simply boil down to the fact that different people have different tastes, and that some people are willing to spend more money than others on certain things. Hardly a new concept?

Everybody is willing to spend money on something that other people don't value anywhere near as highly, be it the newest Blackberry, a cool watch which tells the time in 40 zones and is waterproof to 50 metres, whatever.

I don't think cars are any exception to that.

[OneRedArmy]

Admittedly all of my car buying experience is from the North, but in my experience there are a number of compelling reasons to buy a new car, particularly the German brands:

1. Low depreciation. Unlike a lot of brands, most of the German brands (and a number of other ones too) have historically had very low depreciation. This has changed a bit in the last couple of years as demand has dropped, but broadly, the old "drive it off the forecourt and its worth 20% less" doesn't hold true.

2. Warranties and service inclusive deals. 3-4 year warranties and service inclusive deals are now commonplace on new cars (at least in the North). With parts and labour being extortionately expensive, deals like this further reduce the cost of a new car and give an incentive to buy new, hold to the end of the warranty period, then trade in.

[pineapple stu]

Doesn't this simply boil down to the fact that different people have different tastes, and that some people are willing to spend more money than others on certain things. Hardly a new concept?

I suppose the more frugal of us baffle that people are willing to keep themselves in lots of debt for no real tangible reason, and recent events (recession and people struggling to repay debt) has given legitimacy to that bafflement.

[endabob1]

Having had a run in with a credit card company some years back I only buy things cash (except property obviously) so my cars are now always second hand, that said I did buy a new one once and if you've got the money I 100% recomend it. The low maintenance, lack of worry about things giving up the ghost, (like the turbo in my current motor which is setting me back the equivalent to a cool 1600 euros to replace) is something that is hard to beat.

As for spending excessive amounts on food, when living in London I would infrequently blow 200+ on dinner for myself and the good lady, if it's something you enjoy and can afford it I say why not.
Personally, I dont get the latest mobile phone every 6 months thing, 15 years, 4 phones and for the last 13 years pay as you go.

[dahamsta]

Troll post by Dodge infracted and deleted.

ORA, I've never heard anyone attribute 20% to it (although I'd accept people do tend to exaggerate). I'd guess an average of 10% wouldn't go too far off that mark, given that a "budget" car will lose about €1k on delivery, and luxury cars far more. In business, vehicles are depreciated at 10% per annum at best, and this figure likely isn't far off the consumer rate. That isn't a small figure.

There are cars with 7 year and more warranties, but that doesn't make running them free by any stretch of the imagination. With the growing "electronicification" of cars, servicing - "free" servicing is rarely free, and generally lasts around a year - is getting more expensive, and will get more expensive still because of the proprietary path the manufacturers have chosen. (The equipment is overpriced, and the squeezing of 3rd party servicers will move us towards a cartel.)

endabob1, this is Ireland though, not London. I've eaten in Michelin starred restaurants in Dublin for less than the €100 steak mentioned above, for two of us. With pudding!

[centre mid]

It can save you money in the long run to buy a new car every year. With the reductions in emmisions and car tax, there can be as much as €300-€400 in the difference on a camparable 2010 car and a 1998 car. Added to that the warranty on a new car means that your will not have any service cost or repair/replacement cost. The purchase price of a new car less the trade in value v the hp on an existing car loan are probably negligible if not slighty better.

If your in a position where you can buy a new car then your will always benefit from the eagerness of garages to get new motors out the door and a FF government who give the motor indusrty breaks rather than put together a coherent public transport network. If your happy enough to go on paying in direct taxes such as the nct then good look to you also.

[Dodge]

ORA, I've never heard anyone attribute 20% to it

SkStu did in this very thread

I've eaten in Michelin starred restaurants in Dublin for less than the €100 steak mentioned above, for two of us. With pudding!

But you didn't have to go to a Michelin star restaurent. You allowed yourself the (relative to you) luxury. Just like some people allow themselves the luxury of a new car

[osarusan]

I suppose the more frugal of us baffle that people are willing to keep themselves in lots of debt for no real tangible reason, and recent events (recession and people struggling to repay debt) has given legitimacy to that bafflement.

There is an assumption there that the people buying these cars are keeping themselves in debt to do so. I don't think you can claim it to be fact given we're talking about only 11,000 cars across the country.

Consequently, there isn't really legitimacy in your bafflement from that assumption, in my opinion.

[pineapple stu]

It can save you money in the long run to buy a new car every year. With the reductions in emmisions and car tax, there can be as much as €300-€400 in the difference on a camparable 2010 car and a 1998 car. Added to that the warranty on a new car means that your will not have any service cost or repair/replacement cost. The purchase price of a new car less the trade in value v the hp on an existing car loan are probably negligible if not slighty better.

E300-E400 saving on car tax is nothing compared to the amount it can cost to upgrade each year. It depends on cars obviously, but you'd pay E5k or so to upgrade from an '09 a '10 Avensis, for example. Also, there's warranties on used vehicles as well (granted, usually one year, but still worth mentioning). And I don't think many people are choosing between a '98 and a '10 car; the choice is more likely to be between an '05 (say) and a '10.

On my previous car (an 03), for example, I spent less than E1k on servicing over the three years I had it, some of which (brake pads, windscreen wipers) wouldn't have been covered under warranty anyway, I'd imagine (warranty usually doesn't cover standard wear and tear). I think that factor is talked up more than its worth.

So yes, there may be a feel good factor (and I'm not trying to argue that point other than to note that I don't get it), but I don't think you can portray it as cost-beneficial to upgrade each year.

There is an assumption there that the people buying these cars are keeping themselves in debt to do so. I don't think you can claim it to be fact given we're talking about only 11,000 cars across the country.

11,000 cars across the country? We're on 11,000 cars in Dublin at the moment. Also, I think your post is a bit of a non-sequitur? I don't see a link between your two sentences?

I think we can safely assume that a large amount of people buying new cars are taking out car loans to do so. Certainly, that's my experience of it, and I think given the stories in recent times about how much in debt the country is (in terms of the people in it), it seems a safe assumption to me.

Edit - I don't know if a link is required for the claim that people in general are in a lot of debt, but here's one, two and three; can't find any car loan specific figures at the moment.

[Real ale Madrid]

Just bought a new car last week.

I love mine cos its lovely and shiny and it smells new etc etc

Seriously tho - there's lots of reasons,

2 year warranty
Its a diesel - more efficient than the petrol motor i had - plus the tax for the year is just €104
got a raft of extra features for nothing
got a good price for car I traded in.
Had a look at the possible depreciation and its not as bad as it used to be - same model cost 5k more 3 years ago and model I bought holds its price very well.
Good friend is a mechanic and told me its a good idea to buy new at the moment. particularly Diesel.

[osarusan]

11,000 cars across the country? We're on 11,000 cars in Dublin at the moment. Also, I think your post is a bit of a non-sequitur? I don't see a link between your two sentences?

Sorry, misread original link. you're right, 11,000 in dublin alone .Still though, 11,000 cars for a city of over a million - even though we all know lots of people are in debt, you seem to be assuming that some of these people are the ones buying cars. I'm not sure of the logic of making that link.

The link between my two sentences is that the bafflement only has legitimacy if it is accepted that your assumption is correct.

[pineapple stu]

Still though, 11,000 cars for a city of over a million - even though we all know lots of people are in debt, you seem to be assuming that some of these people are the ones buying cars.

I'm not assuming; I know from working in the industry.

[osarusan]

I'm not assuming; I know from working in the industry.

If you know for a fact that people are willing to keep themselves in debt in order to buy new cars for 'no tangible reason', then fair enough.

[dahamsta]

I'd genuinely love to see numbers for news car v user car costs. I don't believe this "new cars cost less" business for a second, but unfortunately I've no way of backing it up.

[SkStu]

Some people buy second hand clothers, some buy designer clothes...

i dont know why, its just a good feeling to pull on a pair of e30 boxers...

SkStu did in this very thread

exaggerating for fear of being accused of understating, unfortunately!

I'm not assuming; I know from working in the industry.

oi, thats my line!

[endabob1]

My sister & BIL bought my niece a new corsa last year, in the UK mind. l Queried their sanity but they reasoned that as it came with free Insurance, Roadside maintenance & had a 5 yr warranty (normally 3 I think but the dealer bumped it) it was costing them virtually the same amount of money to finance it for 3 years (at which point it goes back or they pay a lump sum) as it would to buy her a decentish second hand car & she'd been through 3 of them. She is in her final year of uni so the need for a reliable car was paramount for getting from home to classes etc.. plus she now has 2 years while working to save the cash to pay it off at the end.

[Fr Damo]

If no one bought new cars the price of 2nd hand cars would rise meaning those that advocate new only would be hit in the pocket. It a rubbish argument IMO, personal taste, circumstances and one that has been discussed last year (to death).

Personally, I have never owned a new car.

Would I buy from new? Yes

Have I lost more in two years on my 06 Diesel vectra than somebody will lose on a 2010 plate corsa will by 2012? Yes.

What is interesting for me though is commercial vehicle sales are on the up too meaning things are improving (at least business sentiment is)