QuoteI don't see how the 2 points are related ?
[I want to preface this by saying that this post is not in any way based in racism or xenophobia. It is purely based on, and in, football in Ireland]
In this thread: http://foot.ie/threads/132005-What-R...Irish-Football a recurring theme is that the League of Ireland is strategically important because it is the top of the football pyramid in the country and it provides a platform for Irish players to perform at the highest possible level in Ireland.
If that is something that is of strategic importance to Irish football then should League of Ireland clubs sign overseas players?
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I don't see how the 2 points are related ?
Every overseas player playing for a League of Ireland club denies Irish football talent the opportunity to play at the highest level in Ireland and therefore confounds one of the strategic objectives of the League.
Technology ain't what it used to be
If they are good enuf they will most probably make it.Originally Posted by Soccer Mom
Taking Sligo Rovers, as a regional team in the North West of Ireland, we have to sign our fair share of overseas player as it can be hard to coax players away from the Pale especially considering the number of teams there is to choose from. Without the overseas players it would make it a lot harder for us to compete in the Premier Division.
Manager: Fergal, have you your boots with ya?
Fergal: Ya, I have them here.
Manager: Ah good stuff, well give them to this man so, he forgot his!
The strategic objectives, as defined by an internet forum...
Under EU laws Football leagues cannot limit the number of EU citizens employed by any particular club. There are limits on non EU citizens in place in the LOI, and indeed through the Work Permit system operated by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment.
Remember that while the League may have the objective of giving a platform for Irish football talent. Individual clubs have no such obligations.
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/
And every overseas computer programmer employed by Irish software companies in Ireland denies Irish computer programming talent the opportunity to program at the highest level in Ireland, so should Irish software companies sign foreign programmers?
Ah here, go away.
Lets redefine what it means to heal
i think CSFShels has summed up my feelings on this and one other thread.
Every league in the world (including the almighty EPL) has benifited from "overseas" players and coaches. Even if it were legal, which it probobly is not, it would be futile and self destructive for any league to ban "overseas" players.
I am not convinced that any country that tried to limit overseas players (playing in the League) have deemed it a success. Domestic talent will learn so much more (thus developing) from overseas players/coaches than they would ever lose in the way of oppurtunity.
You've agreed on the other thread that clubs have the right to make themselves as successful as possible. If bringing in overseas players helps them to do that, why would you have a problem with it?
Even if you do have a problem with it, you can just as easily argue that bringing in overseas players raises both the domestic profile and the standard of football of the LOI, whic would enhance its 'strategic importance' to Irish football. It will require Irish players to improve in order to dislodge the overseas players, which will lead to a better standard of Irish player.
Looking at the first thread you started it looked like you had some decent points to make about football in this country, but after seeing this post it just smacks of total bias towards the LOI and plain begrudgery. Thankfully, people have been kind enough to supply you with logical responses, don't think you merit it though.
Weaseling out of things is important to learn, it's what seperates us from the animals!! Well... except for the weasel.
to be honest, the original thread was just another "how do we improve the league" dressed up as something more attractive. But eventually we got to the crux of the issue without SoccerMom making any positive contribution. All she did was try to get "us" to justify the leagues existence. Its an attitude like that that holds football back in Ireland and i am fully behind PineappleStu's replies to her on the matter. If Irish people like football as much as is claimed, they should be getting off their fat arses and go watch a local team for the season (with due acknowledgement of the lack of clubs for rural folk).
Totally agree with you, and the points being made in that other thread did start to crumble the more you read down through it
Weaseling out of things is important to learn, it's what seperates us from the animals!! Well... except for the weasel.
Firstly, All I did was pose a question that struck me when reading responses to the other thread referenced at the start. I did not suggest that we should, or indeed can, try to stop signing external talent. As redobit & Dodge quite correctly point out it wouldn't be legally possible. I also understand the point that seand makes about Sligo Rovers needs in this regard. If external recruitment helps to keep LoI football in areas other than just Dublin I'm all for it. It's also difficult to argue with marinobohs and osarusan when they say that, in general, diversification can be good for the game in terms of raising standards.
With regard to some other the other contributers I simply don't understand the intolerance, suspicion, lack of willingness to actually read what I write, and to be blunt - the bad manners.
In the interests of clarity let me try to rephrase:
In the context of (and if you don't agree with this, this thread is redundant for you) the Strategic importance of the LoI providing an outlet for domestic footballers - is it acceptable that clubs import players from overseas? I recognise that some clubs may have an absolute need to import players but as a general concept is it acceptable? And if it is acceptable at what point does it become excessive or indeed damaging to local talent?
Last edited by Soccer Mom; 24/02/2010 at 4:59 PM. Reason: adding punctuation
Technology ain't what it used to be
The point at which the country these players come from fail to recognise those playing in their own national league, only give full international caps to their players playing in the LOI and generally rely on our clubs to develop their future internationals, to the detriment of their domestic game.
i'd say thou in general no matter where you live you are probably no more than an hour away from a club?
I think that statement implies that the LOI shouldn't sign foreign players?
Weaseling out of things is important to learn, it's what seperates us from the animals!! Well... except for the weasel.
Snap
Define local talent?? How many non Dublin teams have been full of Dublin players training in Dublin during the week & only turning up in their 'home' town/city when they have a game? I think this is more damaging than having a player signed from overseas who will actually live where they play & have to live in the same town as their fans
you need to look no further that the premier league in England which i think accurately represents where and how the influx of foreigners has damaged the game from grass roots to the international team. Before the influx (some time in the 90's) the amount of foreigners in the game benefitted english players to an extent. The huge increase since then has damaged 99% of the younger players who probably cannot aspire to breakthrough to a premiership first team before the age of 21. Less youngsters are being coached or are training with high calibre British and foreign players. This means that the Championship picks up the slack. Fortunately for the national team, the damage hasnt been great as a country the size of England (and the football culture therein) means that there will always be 22 excellent players to choose for a tournament. There is your answer to the last part of your post.
In response to the strategic element of the LOI to "Irish football" (that loosest of terms) i really hope that you now understand how it currently provides an element of aspiration for a high number of particpants in the game of association football in Ireland. That said, i have consistently posted on this mb over the years about how sadly under-utilised the LOI is by the FAI in shaping its own destiny in football. You need look no further than Turkey or Greece as excellent examples of how a successful, thriving domestic league can transform the sport across the board. It was not too long ago that the Irish national team was thrashing the Greeks 5-0 in Lansdowne Road or the Turks 5-0 at home and 3-1 away from home. Since those days Greece and Turkey have transformed their domestic game (whipping boys to CL regulars) which has greatly benefitted on their national team, ultimately leading to a WC semi-final for Turkey and a Euro championship for Greece. Cyprus and other smaller nations are going the same way.
We are not. We are not in control of our footballing future. We rely on the PL to coach and play our best players. Can you see how much better it would be for us if we could achieve this at home? Develop our own "style", not just the british way. WE ARE TOO RELIANT ON BRITISH LEAGUES! Imagine the money that a successful league would bring to our economy and our junior/underage structures! Our footballing future is crippled and unpredictable and will be for as long as we rely SOLELY on England to develop our youngsters and break them through into the professional game. Do you think it would be better for your son to stay at home and receive his coaching in Ireland by an Irish association?
I dont think it is the fault of the clubs - i believe that, for all the flaws in footie here, the clubs are doing their best to improve things on and off the pitch with very, very limited assistance from their governing body. That is where the blame lies. The FAI needs to grow a piar and structure football correctly in this country and take the power from the schoolboy teams. It will never happen though and football will remain stagnant until such time as the structure is change and the LOI is placed at the top of the pile by the FAI. That is the long term solution to the problem.
That and the apathy of Irish people to live football. A huger majority of Irish people arent the football fans they claim to be, theyre Sky1 fans, Andy Gray fans, fans of glitzy lights and newspaper headlines. True passion for football is exhibited by the 10,000 or so fans that attend and support their local teams games every week. You claim this and that but you have a vested interest in wanting your son to maximise his ability and playing time so you help hang the nets. I dont consider you a fan of football, you're a fan of your son - which is your entitlement. You say you go to Irish games - then you are a fan of the "glitzy lights and newspaper headlines". If Irish people got off their holes and went to games, you would see, as natural course, that the FAI would
reconsider its "strategy" (now theres a laugh) and you would see the full and true benefits of the LOI as a "strategic tool" sooner.
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