Player eligibility row

[seanfhear]

There is an awful lot of Orangemen at the head of the IFA (I would say its pretty much mandatory to be in the Orange Order to achieve high office in the IFA) and everyone knows that Orangemen are slow learners.

I mean how long does it take to understand that it would be much better to march in areas that you are welcome than to march in areas that you are not welcome !

[Predator]

God knows. I'd expect Nelson (CEO) to explain. I'll ask him direct.

If you get a response, I'd be interested to hear what he has to say. He seemed fairly clueless about the whole thing way back when the whole furore over Duffy's change erupted.

Sure, McNarry's talking through his hole. Judging purely by the comments in the article you quoted, McCausland is acknowledging that our future squads are likely to be weakened- doesn't everyone accept that? While I disagree with Rodgers (and Awec on here, as below), it's hardly idiotic to suggest some unfairness in the situation.

McNarry certainly is talking nonsense - how could anyone ever entertain such a notion as that he is suggesting?!
McCausland appears to be trying to be diplomatic, but in saying that it's a 'poor result', he immediately positions himself in opposition to the principle of choice in this regard. I'll accept that future NI squads are likely to be weakened, but by how much is impossible to say - have NI squads been weakened considerably over the past decade?

[Mr_Parker]

(I would say its pretty much mandatory to be in the Orange Order to achieve high office in the IFA)

Nonsense.

[seanfhear]

Nonsense.

Is Raymond Kennedy in the Orange Order. Was/is his predcessor Boyce in the Orange Order.

To reach high office in the IFA you have to be in the Orange Order.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Their usual pomposity aside......

Judging purely by the comments in the article you quoted, McCausland is acknowledging that our future squads are likely to be weakened- doesn't everyone accept that? While I disagree with Rodgers, it's hardly idiotic to suggest some unfairness in the situation.

What 'unfairness' ?? The rules haven't changed.

Of course these things change over time, and may run in cycles, but any kid making that choice in, say, 1994, might still only have seen you in one finals in his entire playing career. Paul Green and Sean St Ledger didn't abandon England because they thought the Republic of Ireland were more likely to qualify. Of course, there's always a chance that some unionist-background kid might have a row with the IFA coaches/ administrators and storm South (or even West, to Dan the Man's nice training camp in Andytown), but when did that last happen?

As opposed to No Finals in quarter of a century and counting, for anyone stupid enough to play for the North!
Lol.

Doesn't it depend what you mean by youth teams? As I've said, I'd make the cut-off any game as an adult (age 18 or above), as it seems a bit unfair to pressure younger guys.

Except with any country, it's a full competitive cap. It could hardly be much clearer.

They aren't 'scrotes' (and if they were, as others say above doesn't that make Ollie Norwood or Lee Hodson a scrote too?). They're simply playing according to the existing rules

Exactly. So why are the North whinging about Gibson, Duffy, Kearns et al??
The benefit as much as they 'lose'. More Hypocrisy.

There's no likelihood of either a united British team nor a politically united Ireland in the foreseeable future.

But at least all Irishmen can play for Ireland, not some shabby Brit.outfit!

Half of your squad are guys who I'd guess feel just a little bit British (having lived all their lives in Britain, quite likely with their British parents).

At least check the facts. With the exception of Lawrenson & Townsend, most of the Diaspora would have no reason to feel English, Scottish or whatever, if only in the main most of their parents were Irish, which even you claim to be. Would you deny them even that?

All the French squad were Frenchmen who grew up in France, were they not? Most of the Algerians were French as well, qualifying through (grand)parentage.

Yes, but they were qualified to play for other countires. As the North should do with their dredging of the lower leagues in England & Scotland.
Lol.

Whataboutery alert. Do you think nonsense there justifies nonsense here?

Do you mean yours??

[Gather round]

I would say its pretty much mandatory to be in the Orange Order to achieve high office in the IFA

You would be wrong, as Mr Parker says. I'm fairly sure the current CEO, for example, isn't in the Orange Order.

If you get a response, I'd be interested to hear what he has to say. He seemed fairly clueless about the whole thing way back when the whole furore over Duffy's change erupted

We shall see...

I'll accept that future NI squads are likely to be weakened, but by how much is impossible to say - have NI squads been weakened considerably over the past decade?

Notionally, I think we'd be stronger with two more Premiership regulars (Gibson and Wilson) in our squad (we had only five last season- Evans, Hughes, Baird, McCartney and Paterson).

[Gather round]

What 'unfairness' ?? The rules haven't changed

From Nelson McCausland's point of view (which I don't share), the situation has changed. For decades, relatively few prominent players from NI played for the Republic's teams. Now there's a perception (again, not shared by me) that this may become common, if not the default, for those from nationalist background. You can see why he's disappointed and sees that as unfair, especially given that the FAI feels it can choose ALL the players from NI.

As opposed to No Finals in quarter of a century and counting, for anyone stupid enough to play for the North!

There's nothing stupid about choosing to play international football. However, it's unrealistic to expect players from a country which rarely qualifies to choose a foreign country which, er, hardly ever qualfies, purely on the grounds that it qualifies slightly more often.

Except with any country, it's a full competitive cap. It could hardly be much clearer

I know what FIFA's rule is. I've suggested repeatedly that there's potential for the IFA to agree a slightly different bilateral deal with FAI. Do you actually read what anyone else posts?

But at least all Irishmen can play for Ireland, not some shabby Brit.outfit

Is that the shabby Brit outfit you've spent pretty much your entire life happily living in?

At least check the facts. With the exception of Lawrenson & Townsend, most of the Diaspora would have no reason to feel English, Scottish or whatever, if only in the main most of their parents were Irish, which even you claim to be. Would you deny them even that?

I don't need to check any facts: it's pretty self-evident that people who are born, grow up, go to school and then live and work in England are likely to feel at least a bit English, as I said. For the umpteenth time, I'm not denying anyone anything. They can be Irish too, whether before the FAI come calling or after.

[Nedser]

Steady on. Half of your squad are guys who I'd guess feel just a little bit British (having lived all their lives in Britain, quite likely with their British parents).

GR, firstly just to say that you generally come across as a reasonable guy and make relatively balanced comments, but this one is utter rubbish.

First of all to address the "half your squad" part" 20 out of 28 of the latest squad announced were born in Ireland. Of the remaining 8 born outside Ireland, 2 of them were born to 2 Irish parents. One of the 6 qualifying through the "grandfather rule" is McGeady, and whatever you think of him, there is no question he plays for Ireland because he wants to. If he wanted to play for Scotland, he could have. So the vast majority of the squad are genuinely Irish.

Secondly, if you genuinely believe that most Irish people living in Britain feel "just a little bit British", you're quite simply wrong.

[Gather round]

GR, firstly just to say that you generally come across as a reasonable guy and make relatively balanced comments

Thanks.

but this one is utter rubbish...First of all to address the "half your squad" part" 20 out of 28 of the latest squad announced were born in Ireland. Of the remaining 8 born outside Ireland, 2 of them were born to 2 Irish parents. One of the 6 qualifying through the "grandfather rule"

Apologies, unnecessary exaggeration, Replace 'half' with 'a large proportion'. Recent internationals from Britain (ie, lived pretty much their entire lives there) include Messrs McGeady, McCarthy, Lawrence, St Leger, Westwood, Green. I mean, it's quite a lot.

McGeady, and whatever you think of him, there is no question he plays for Ireland because he wants to

What's your point? I know he wants to play for the South, and the widely quoted reasons why: he fell out with the Scottish FA in a row about a schools or youth game.

So the vast majority of the squad are genuinely Irish

I haven't suggested anyone isn't genuinely Irish, merely that people from Scotland or England are Scottish or English too. At least just a little bit.

Secondly, if you genuinely believe that most Irish people living in Britain feel "just a little bit British", you're quite simply wrong

Speak for them all, do you? I suggested most people not merely living in Britain, but who've spent their entire lives there, birth, school, work, etc. etc. I allowed for people with one Irish grandparent, or four, or any number in between. Ditto ancestors from Britain or anywhere else. It would be a bit odd if they all felt equally non-British, don't ye think?

[Mr_Parker]

Is Raymond Kennedy in the Orange Order. Was/is his predcessor Boyce in the Orange Order.

To reach high office in the IFA you have to be in the Orange Order.

Yes Kennedy is in the OO, but no Boyce was/is not.




Oh and just to prove what an idiot Kennedy is (if anyone hadn't realised it already) this is an interview he did about being in the OO.

[seanfhear]

Yes Kennedy is in the OO, but no Boyce was/is not.

It is hilarious that the leader of the IFA and an Orangeman took legal action to force players (many from a catholic backround) to turn out for their organisation.

If the IFA were serious about being a genuinely cross community organistion then they would not allow members of the Orange Order to hold any positions within the IFA.

[osarusan]

It is hilarious that the leader of the IFA and an Orangeman took legal action to force players (many from a catholic backround) to turn out for their organisation.

When did the IFA force players to put on a shirt and walk out onto the pitch?

[ArdeeBhoy]

There's nothing stupid about choosing to play international football. However, it's unrealistic to expect players from a country which rarely qualifies to choose a foreign country which, er, hardly ever qualfies, purely on the grounds that it qualifies slightly more often.

You mean '"won't", as opposed to "occasionally".....

I know what FIFA's rule is. I've suggested repeatedly that there's potential for the IFA to agree a slightly different bilateral deal with FAI.

Why the FAI even acknowledge the IFA who're now redundant. The former can pick all Irish players, even the ones to be British! But guessing the bigots won't take up the offer!

Is that the shabby Brit outfit you've spent pretty much your entire life happily living in?

Neither of us have lived in the North for years!

I don't need to check any facts: it's pretty self-evident that people who are born, grow up, go to school and then live and work in England are likely to feel at least a bit English, as I said. For the umpteenth time, I'm not denying anyone anything. They can be Irish too, whether before the FAI come calling or after.

And you claim yer not pompous! There's loads of people living in different countries, including Ireland, who don't feel the slightest part of that country. Not all, but many. Certainly a majority of people I've met with foreign roots.

Apologies, unnecessary exaggeration, Replace 'half' with 'a large proportion'. Recent internationals from Britain (ie, lived pretty much their entire lives there) include Messrs McGeady, McCarthy, Lawrence, St Leger, Westwood, Green. I mean, it's quite a lot.

It's some. Look up the word 'Diaspora'.
And then see the IFA are pursuing their own players in a similar manner!

Speak for them all, do you? I suggested most people not merely living in Britain, but who've spent their entire lives there, birth, school, work, etc. etc. I allowed for people with one Irish grandparent, or four, or any number in between. Ditto ancestors from Britain or anywhere else. It would be a bit odd if they all felt equally non-British, don't ye think?

Not at all. Especially if you were a prime example of the Brits! Or are you Irish today??

[Gather round]

]You mean '"won't", as opposed to "occasionally"...

No, I mean occasionally. Over both the mid-term (last 15 years, say) and long-term (since they started entering international competitions in the 1950s), both Irish sides have qualified only occasionally. But increasing the number of European championship finalists to 24 obviously increases the chance of both qualifying more often in future, as even you've acknowledged.

Why the FAI even acknowledge the IFA who're now redundant. The former can pick all Irish players

Don't be absurd. How are the IFA redundant? They have an international football team to run. Which can still pick all Northern Ireland qualified players. Stop posting nonsense.

There's loads of people living in different countries, including Ireland, who don't feel the slightest part of that country. Not all, but many. Certainly a majority of people I've met with foreign roots

I specifically mentioned- repeatedly- people who'd spent their entire lives living in Britain, with (as per Nedser's detail) quite likely British parents too. Not just anyone living abroad from their country at any point.

[seanfhear]

When did the IFA force players to put on a shirt and walk out onto the pitch?

They are trying to remove the choice of Irish citizens to choose for whom they wish to play for.

If you cannot see how ridiculous this sort of behaviour is from an organisation that is headed by a member of the sectarian/bigoted orange order then your ridicule barometer needs a service.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Over both the mid-term (last 15 years, say) and long-term (since they started entering international competitions in the 1950s), both Irish sides have qualified only occasionally.

Yeah, Ireland 4 times in 22 years. The North=Nil in the same time period. Of course it's the same, do the mathS FFS.

How are the IFA redundant? They have an international football team to run. Which can still pick all Northern Ireland qualified players. Stop posting nonsense.

The FA can pick any Irish player, if they're willing! And mind the Hypocrisy!

I specifically mentioned- repeatedly- people who'd spent their entire lives living in Britain, with (as per Nedser's detail) quite likely British parents too.

Think you need to speak to a few immigrants to find the real answer!
Lol.

[osarusan]

They are trying to remove the choice of Irish citizens to choose for whom they wish to play for.

Agreed, but that's not the same as forcing them to play.

Don't get me wrong, I think CAS made the right decision, and I cannot believe the IFA pursued the issue as far as they did, but given the amount of comments on here aimed at the use of the words 'poached', 'nabbed' and so on by media sympathetic to Northern Ireland's case, I think it's fair to point out that the wording can be wrong (deliberately or not) on both sides of the issue.

[Gather round]

Yeah, Ireland 4 times in 22 years. The North=Nil in the same time period. Of course it's the same, do the mathS FFS

I've already done the math(s). You can change the period counted to emphasise how good/ rubbish teams are, but most people will recognise that both Irish sides have a mediocre record both overall and in the recent past. 16, 20 or 22 years ago isn't much more relevant than 24 or 28 years ago.

The FA can pick any Irish player, if they're willing!

I know! How does this make the IFA redudant?! If nothing else, both FAs are limited by the practicality of there being only 11 places in any given football team.

Think you need to speak to a few immigrants to find the real answer!

All speaking to a few people would tell me is a few largely anecdotal accounts which will likely differ from each other. Not everyone with exclusive or part-Irish ancestry rejects any other possible identity equally. Not that I'm discussing immigrants anyway, all the people I've mentioned have lived in Britain since birth.

[Not Brazil]

They begged FIFA to change their rules. They begged the CAS to force FIFA to change the rule.

They didn't.

In their ill thought out "strategy" on this issue, the Irish Football Association appealed to FIFA to UPHOLD their rules.

I know - absolutely cringeworthy.

And - we still have some within HQ, and many supporters, who think FIFA's rules are not being upheld.

The strategy of the Irish Football Association on the matter was a complete and utter fcuk up.

[Gather round]

PM for the Not Brazilian.