QuoteSomeone posted and agreed with a blog post that painted NI fans as super-hardline loyalist terrorist supporting bigots and that Windsor is a no-go to nationalists etc etc.Originally Posted by Acornvilla
Obviously, people took issue with this.
i stopped reading this months ago, why the hell is it still being discussed?
Someone posted and agreed with a blog post that painted NI fans as super-hardline loyalist terrorist supporting bigots and that Windsor is a no-go to nationalists etc etc.
Obviously, people took issue with this.
The issue here is an ongoing one which has not yet been resolved. I suppose that is the reason why it is still being discussed (even though it often veers, sometimes dramatically, off-topic).
The CAS case is being heard on Monday.
The whole thing is shrouded in mystery. I'm on the edge of my seat in anticipation.
My memory may be fading after 25 odd years, although I suspect it's more reliable than that of someone who hasn't actually lived in the country since they were three.
It doesn't actually, they amount to the same thing in practice. The only place where the name of the Republic of Ireland is an issue is in Northern Ireland. This shouldn't be a surprise, there are plenty of similar examples elsewhere. For example, pretty much everyone else Worldwide refers to Bruges and Ypres, apart from the people who live there. Pretty much no-one outside Ireland cares, or even knows, what's in the constitution or some arcane court judgement. Or even some Raheny judgement. By repeating all that stuff, you are just echoing EG's original grumble.
Last edited by Gather round; 17/07/2010 at 1:30 PM.
And the "windsor" comes from where?
Anyway, I think to many are caught up in the location of the ground. That is not what most Nationalists who refuse to darken its doors and support NI would point to as their reason, it is only one of many.
Ha ha, if you say so. Have you actually asked any, presuming you even know any Cliftonville fans??
The few I do, would certainly be Anywhere but P S-C G.
Hmm. Obviously issues of geography, numeracy and amnesia all need to be addressed, in combination with the usual attempt at revisionism. Lol.
And your 'examples' similarly make no sense!
Called after the area.
I suspect the main reason most nationalists support the Republic is political. The relative succes of the RoI in the past 22 years is also a big influence.
Actually as I normally drive to games in my southern registered car I'd be much more likely to go to Windsor on a whim (as I did last Wednesday) than go to the Oval or Seaview. I've
never had a problem at either ground but would be more wary parking there but only based on observing the area and not on anything I've seen or heard.
Limerick FC Més que un club
Odd comment. Surely they support "the Republic" for the same reasons you do as you drive around in your Southern registered car?
Is there something special about his car that makes him a better Ireland fan?
Bahahahahaa!
You must love how you can ask questions here and people on this forum don't know that you already know the answer.
Folks, if you must know just ONE thing about Parker, it's this:
He never asks a question he doesn't know the answer to.
Spot on there ifk.
And the 'humour' of unionists from the North is way too cryptic, if that last post is anything to go by!
I know that, but where did the area inherit its name from?
True. They are Irish afterall.
You don't know me that well then.Bahahahahaa!
You must love how you can ask questions here and people on this forum don't know that you already know the answer.
Folks, if you must know just ONE thing about Parker, it's this:
He never asks a question he doesn't know the answer to.
The area was called that before the current Royal Family adopted the Windsor name.I know that, but where did the area inherit its name from?
True. They are Irish afterall.
Oh, we know you only too well Parker.You don't know me that well then.
"No disrespect to Northern Ireland, but I would rather be playing for my country." – Shane Duffy.
"It's the best honour you can get to represent your country – it's always been a dream of mine to play for Ireland." – Marc Wilson.
"It was unbelievable you know, making the debut for your country. Everyone from Derry wants to play for Ireland. I grew up supporting Ireland, so it was a natural choice for me." – Darron Gibson.
One thing that I really have very little time for, because I find it quite insulting - not just for players who make "the switch", but also on a personal level because it implicitly questions or mocks the inalienable right of those nearest and dearest to me to have themselves simply recognised as Irish - is this sly, sneering and patronising crap of nit-picking or scoffing at the self-professed identity of northern-born players who wish to represent Ireland, their country, our country all, and the particular ways in which they express their sense of Irish nationality.
OWC (I mention it because it's where this debate appears more livid than anywhere else) is full of what I've mentioned above when an Irish northern-born player mentions how he identifies as/feels/considers himself Irish, as if to suggest these guys - characterised as clueless idiots, because surely they couldn't be anything else if they're seriously trying to suggest they're Irish after having been born and played a bit of football in the north, right?! - aren't 100 per cent certain of their own nationality to "be" it rather than "merely" "feel" it or "identify" with it, and as if to in turn suggest that there is some dubiousness as to the effect of Irish nationality law throughout the island. There's this implication that because these players merely express that they "feel" Irish, they're somehow not genuinely Irish or they're cod Irish.
Just because someone mentions that they "feel" Irish doesn't mean their actual Irish nationality is in doubt nor is it some sort of unwitting admission that they aren't actually Irish. The two are not mutually exclusive. To speak personally, I both am Irish and I feel Irish. I would very much imagine that it's the same for these players. Whether they've played youth football within the Northern Ireland set-up has no bearing on that reality at all. Furthermore, there is nothing dubious or suspect about the application of Irish nationality law over the whole island. If Irish nationality law is not being dismissed as slack or overly-liberal by certain NI fans (I’m looking at you ‘fhtb’, and I know you read this, you absolute ignoramus), then you can be sure it's being chastised as irredentist and provocative (Still looking in the same direction.). These are various descriptions I have seen accorded to it straight from OWC. What a load of complete and utter rubbish. Irish nationality law has unambiguous effect over this whole island and this effect is entirely transparent and legitimate. Its effect is bilaterally agreed and was expressly approved in the GFA by the UK and a democratic majority within the north.
It just seems there is this ingrained or subconscious desire amongst certain NI fans to look down upon the nationalist/Catholic community in the north and think of them as misguided pretenders who, if not "owning up" to the supposed reality that they are Northern Irish/British, don’t really have a genuine or legitimate national identity. Of course, this all goes towards subtly reinforcing the prejudiced view within NI that the Northern Irish state as it exists is not for these "dissenters"; that it's solely British and they ought to owe it their allegiance.
I genuinely thought we’d moved on from all of the above crap, but it’s patently obvious we haven’t from the brief interactions I’ve been permitted to have on OWC.
Even the ignorance (surely feigned) of Worthington when he pondered, "'I find it difficult to understand that a player doesn't want to play for Northern Ireland", was mind-boggling. Even his hypocrisy then was blatant; claiming he wished the likes of Shane Duffy no acrimony in his switch right after declaring he'd be fully backing the IFA in any legal battle to try and halt, seemingly, all northern-born players (even those with parentage and grand-parentage from the south), Duffy included, from declaring for Ireland.
I look forward to Monday. Or whenever it is CAS publish their decision and tell the IFA to get lost.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 18/07/2010 at 6:59 AM.
Not really. Most people refer to the USA as simply "America", but that's not the official name of the country. Similarly, a lot of people refer to the UK as "Britain" (or even "England"!), and the Netherlands as "Holland". So it's clear that the name most commonly used and the official name are not necessarily the same. However, as it happens, in the case of Ireland, they are the same.
I agree pretty much no-one outside Ireland cares/knows now - although it should be noted that the UK govt seems to have cared a lot up until the relatively recent past - the lengths they went to to try to prevent people using the name "Ireland" are well documented. It seems they succeeded in the EG household, if not in many other quarters!
I don't recall referring to any court judgement, arcane or otherwise, to support my point, so not sure what you mean by that. In any case, I fully intended to echo EG's grumble. I was pointing out his hypocrisy in objecting to people using an "incorrect" name for the football team even though he knowingly uses an incorrect name for the country that the same football team represents. I've already said I don't care whether people use the correct name or not, my point is simply that EG can't have it both ways.
"Fine, although NI's his country too, having lived in it for 17 years and er, played for its representative teams. I think Danny and others can see why many NI fans are irritated, not that I'm condoning the hysteria or abuse directed at Duffy and generally.
See above, there's no place for abuse. But let's not get carried away. Everyone recognises you and your kin as Irish.
All NI-born (players) are Irish. I'm 100% Irish, just like you.OWC (I mention it because it's where this debate appears more livid than anywhere else) is full of what I've mentioned above when an Irish northern-born player
As I've mentioned a few times, whether they've played for NI representative teams as adults would do.Whether they've played youth football within the Northern Ireland set-up has no bearing on that reality at all
There are plenty of dubious aspects about its application, and others worthy of debate, maybe elsewhere. Just to repeat a couple briefly- it looks odd that the Republic will happily offer citizenship to pretty much everyone in NI, but won't automatically do so for everyone born in the South. As confirmed by nearly 80% in a recent constitutional referendum. As for the irredentism (although I think the name's overblown), it's still there. Every political institution in the South has reuniting Ireland as a major theoretical objective, even if we all know you won't see them for dust if it ever becomes even a remote posibility in practice.Furthermore, there is nothing dubious or suspect about the application of Irish nationality law over the whole island. If Irish nationality law is not being dismissed as slack or overly-liberal by certain NI fans... then you can be sure it's being chastised as irredentist and provocative (Still looking in the same direction.). These are various descriptions I have seen accorded to it straight from OWC. What a load of complete and utter rubbish. Irish nationality law has unambiguous effect over this whole island and this effect is entirely transparent and legitimate. Its effect is bilaterally agreed and was expressly approved in the GFA by the UK and a democratic majority within the north
Mopery alert. Many in Northern Ireland have ingrained prejudices, some are football fans. While OWC (like foot.ie) offers a wide range of opinion, often beyond football, I wouldn't overstate their significance.It just seems there is this ingrained or subconscious desire amongst certain NI fans to look down upon the nationalist/Catholic community in the north and think of them as misguided pretenders who, if not "owning up" to the supposed reality that they are Northern Irish/British, don’t really have a genuine or legitimate national identity
This is a bit over the top, Danny. Wanting guys from Derry or Newry to play for NI doesn't quite equate to exclude dsisenters, deny their nationalism or whatever.Of course, this all goes towards subtly reinforcing the prejudiced view within NI that the Northern Irish state as it exists is not for these "dissenters"; that it's solely British and they ought to owe it their allegiance
Has FHTB banned you then? Look, we feel your pain, but it isn't the end of the World. Just re-register. Ardee Bhoy will lend you one of his numerous aliases. Just remember to use the phrases 'paranoid planters' and 'medieval theme park' in every post and you'll be fine.I genuinely thought we’d moved on from all of the above crap, but it’s patently obvious we haven’t from the brief interactions I’ve been permitted to have on OWC
I don't, the ****storm will likely block up the internet like an electronic Krakatoa. Although I'm sure you're right about the likely verdict. Thank fcuk it's the cricket season.I look forward to Monday. Or whenever it is CAS publish their decision and tell the IFA to get lost
So we're agreed then.
Really? Do you have some brief links?although it should be noted that the UK govt seems to have cared a lot up until the relatively recent past - the lengths they went to to try to prevent people using the name "Ireland" are well documented
Apologies, I was exaggerating a bit for effect. My point was simply that people in Djakarta or Djibuti call the Republic 'Ireland' because it's common/ convenient, not because of what's in the UN or local constitution. As I said, the only place where it's an issue is NI, where we'll point out that the South is only part of Ireland. Just like England is merely part of Britain, as per your own example.I don't recall referring to any court judgement, arcane or otherwise, to support my point, so not sure what you mean by that
OK, with you now. Grumble awayIn any case, I fully intended to echo EG's grumble...I've already said I don't care whether people use the correct name or not
Originally Posted by gspain
I suspect the main reason most nationalists support the Republic is political.
Not sure what my car has to do with it.
The point I was trying to make was that most nationalists support the Republic because they identify with the Republic so our team as the team that is
closest to their political beliefs of a United Ireland. It is not down to the fact that the NI side is not inclusive oir that Windsor Park is supposedly a no go area.
A team playing under the tricolour out of Dublin with A na b as our anthem is more in tune with nationalism even than one playing in green with a Celtic Cross on their shirts.
I'm not trying to wind anybody up here btw, I fully support the right oif anybody from NI to consider themselves Irish and I'm delighted Shane Duffy, Darron Gibson et al
have declared for us,
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