Player eligibility row

[Lionel Ritchie]

Aaron Rogan must be a feckin wizard -they've picked him twice.

Come to think of it ...maybe he's not only Catholic -maybe he's one of them Padre Pio types who can bi-substansiate. Think of the possibilities ...that would be some striking partnership if we stuck him up front with himself ...and the money would just roll in from the Karaoke competitions he'd walk doing Everly Brothers songs.

[Predator]

Danny Kearns is being released from West Ham along with Terry Dixon over the coming weeks.

Whoah! Tell us more insider!

"(The IFA) have picked Daniel Kearns as the case they’re going to bring to CAS," Delaney said yesterday.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/kfkfgbqlgbid/rss2/

Have they decided to pick Kearns as a type of scapegoat, since he is the most recent one to change? There are quite a few kids in our underage squads at the minute who don't satisfy the IFA and their interpretation of the rules.

Aaron Rogan must be a feckin wizard -they've picked him twice.

Come to think of it ...maybe he's not only Catholic -maybe he's one of them Padre Pio types who can bi-substansiate. Think of the possibilities ...that would be some striking partnership if we stuck him up front with himself ...and the money would just roll in from the Karaoke competitions he'd walk doing Everly Brothers songs.

He's actually a very good player; he played out of position at right back for NI in the Victory Shield and received positive reviews - he even found himself being featured in Soccer AM's 'Showboat' compilation. On top of that, he's an Irish and European champion boxer.

[Charlie Darwin]

Danny Kearns is being released from West Ham along with Terry Dixon over the coming weeks.

http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/spo...to_leave_club/

No mention of Dixon but Kearns is apparently on his bike.

[DannyInvincible]

There are quite a few kids in our underage squads at the minute who don't satisfy the IFA and their interpretation of the rules.

Just reading article 18 again, the way it is worded provides a crucial insight into how "nationality" should be read in article 16 where a player is "eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality", the article the IFA are asking the CAS to ensure FIFA uphold. Article 18 begins:

If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if a Player is eligible to play for several representative teams due to nationality...

The IFA's case rests on the word "nationality" in article 16 referring to a fusion of all nationalities held by a particular player - for example, if his nationality was considered "Irish-British"/"British-Irish", this single nationality would entitle him to play for more than one team, Ireland and, say, Northern Ireland - but it is clear from the wording of article 18 that FIFA treat each nationality held by a player as distinct from any other nationalities he might hold. The article distinguishes between a player having more than one nationality (which is the case for those players born in the north who possess both Irish and British nationality) and players eligible to play for more than one team due to a single nationality (for example, British nationality would permit a player to play for any of the "Home nations" before the application of further conditions restricting players with British nationality to play for one). There is no such thing as a single "Irish-British" nationality; rather, there are separate Irish and British nationalities, and, importantly, this is how FIFA view the concept of nationality. That might sound a bit convoluted and I'm not sure how well I've articulated what I'm trying to say, but I think you can get the gist of it anyway. Essentially, it means the IFA's case is destined to fail.

[sean r]

now to shed more light on the subject what would be the all time combined team, and how good would a combined team do now? dont forget northern ireland had one of the best footballers in history who could of played for eireann if a player is able to play for the republic then he should be picked no questions asked. so yes we should pick who we can for the benefit of the national team

[ArdeeBhoy]

Who do you mean? Jennings??

Not too many realistic characters at this stage....

[Irish_Praha]

Who do you mean? Jennings??

Not too many realistic characters at this stage....

I presume he meant Best?

[Predator]

I presume he meant Best?

To be fair he could have meant a couple of people, but you're right it was probably Georgie Boy.

[Lionel Ritchie]

...one of the best footballers in history who could of played for...

I think we should have a dedicated thread in Other Stuff where others so inclined as myself can point and laugh at people who do this. :-D

[DannyInvincible]

I think we should have a dedicated thread in Other Stuff where others so inclined as myself can point and laugh at people who do this. :-D

Awk now, sure he's only a kid...

[gspain]

Actually the Northern Ireland fans voted for Jennings as their best ever player a few years back with Best in 2nd place. Big Pat played 119 times of course incl 2 World Cups and winning 2 Home Championships. George only got 37 caps.

[Newryrep]

Just reading article 18 again, the way it is worded provides a crucial insight into how "nationality" should be read in article 16 where a player is "eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality", the article the IFA are asking the CAS to ensure FIFA uphold. Article 18 begins:

The IFA's case rests on the word "nationality" in article 16 referring to a fusion of all nationalities held by a particular player - for example, if his nationality was considered "Irish-British"/"British-Irish", this single nationality would entitle him to play for more than one team, Ireland and, say, Northern Ireland - but it is clear from the wording of article 18 that FIFA treat each nationality held by a player as distinct from any other nationalities he might hold. The article distinguishes between a player having more than one nationality (which is the case for those players born in the north who possess both Irish and British nationality) and players eligible to play for more than one team due to a single nationality (for example, British nationality would permit a player to play for any of the "Home nations" before the application of further conditions restricting players with British nationality to play for one). There is no such thing as a single "Irish-British" nationality; rather, there are separate Irish and British nationalities, and, importantly, this is how FIFA view the concept of nationality. That might sound a bit convoluted and I'm not sure how well I've articulated what I'm trying to say, but I think you can get the gist of it anyway. Essentially, it means the IFA's case is destined to fail.

Danny out of the last thread, that was the jist of I think Geysirs? , reasoning that the nationality referered to is a single nationality (which entitles them to play for different teams) wheres the IFA thinks it means the plural eg dual nationality. But as was pointed out , dual nationalitys etc are covered elsewhere and Irish nationality alone does not entitle somebody to play for the north The IFA should be argueing for achange in the rules as opposed to the rules being enforced

[Wolfie]

I think we should have a dedicated thread in Other Stuff where others so inclined as myself can point and laugh at people who do this. :-D

Not your most articulate post, Lionel.

The duplicate reference to derivatives of "Other" was disappointing. I'll resist the temptation to point and laugh.

[Predator]

I read in the Irish Star on Saturday that Shane Duffy's association change may not receive FIFA clearance until after the CAS case and as such he may not be able to play in May (although he will be able to participate in the training camp). I appreciate that there is no rush; Duffy is young and should have many more chances to play in the future, but it confused me somewhat, given that Duffy is not subject to the IFA's appeal. Even if he doesn't get clearance in time for the May friendlies, is there any guarantee that he'll be cleared in time for the U21 games in August? After all, this CAS case has the potential to drag on.

I wonder have FIFA or the FAI actually specified that they will not deal with any further association changes concerning Irish players because of the whole CAS thing? Surely not, since Daniel Kearns received clearance after a few months and was able to play for the U19s in their recent games.

[greendeiseboy]

I read in the Irish Star on Saturday that Shane Duffy's association change may not receive FIFA clearance until after the CAS case and as such he may not be able to play in May (although he will be able to participate in the training camp). I appreciate that there is no rush; Duffy is young and should have many more chances to play in the future, but it confused me somewhat, given that Duffy is not subject to the IFA's appeal. Even if he doesn't get clearance in time for the May friendlies, is there any guarantee that he'll be cleared in time for the U21 games in August? After all, this CAS case has the potential to drag on.

I wonder have FIFA or the FAI actually specified that they will not deal with any further association changes concerning Irish players because of the whole CAS thing? Surely not, since Daniel Kearns received clearance after a few months and was able to play for the U19s in their recent games.

I thought Duffy's case didnt apply here as he qualifies through parentage regardless of where he was born and his situation is different to the case being brought by the IFA.

[Predator]

I thought Duffy's case didnt apply here as he qualifies through parentage regardless of where he was born and his situation is different to the case being brought by the IFA.

Exactly, which is what confuses me. Perhaps it is because the articles under review are concerned with players holding more than one nationality changing and by default all such players are subject to review and prohibited from changing while the case runs its course? However, Daniel Kearns' recent selection would suggest otherwise. The IFA have, in the media at least, acknowledged that Duffy is not subject to their appeal, but who knows how their case is being presented.

[lopez]

And maybe the Star are talking b*ll*cks.

[Charlie Darwin]

Yeah, there is no case to be heard over Duffy's nationality. NI were angry about the manner of his defection but they're not challenging its legality.

[DannyInvincible]

Danny out of the last thread, that was the jist of I think Geysirs? , reasoning that the nationality referered to is a single nationality (which entitles them to play for different teams) wheres the IFA thinks it means the plural eg dual nationality. But as was pointed out , dual nationalitys etc are covered elsewhere and Irish nationality alone does not entitle somebody to play for the north The IFA should be argueing for achange in the rules as opposed to the rules being enforced

I fully understand that and completely agree. That's more or less what I was saying. The part you highlighted was just me proposing what exactly it would entail were the IFA's interpretation correct. Of course, such obviously isn't the case as nationality is a singular concept and FIFA expressly acknowledge and stipulate this in article 18, so we know such an interpretation to be incorrect.

[co. down green]

And maybe the Star are talking b*ll*cks.

That sounds about right.

I wonder have FIFA or the FAI actually specified that they will not deal with any further association changes concerning Irish players because of the whole CAS thing? Surely not, since Daniel Kearns received clearance after a few months and was able to play for the U19s in their recent games.

Daniel Kearns would have been playing for us well before Christmas but for the hold up in his papers from FIFA, these things can take a bit of time and that’s likely the case with Duffy.

Derry player Thomas McBride had his first call-up to the u19 side (as well as Kearns) after the IFA went to CAS, and Shane & Patrick McEleney have continued to be selected, so there is certainly no agreement not to field players from the North.

If I recall from the last occasion, the FAI stopped fielding players for a short period on instruction from FIFA , prior to their legal teams decision, which again came to the conclusion that players born in the North continued to be eligible for Ireland. They were then free to be selected again as the issue had been clarified by FIFA. The IFA also refused a compromise deal from the FAI, which would have allowed the northern association to field players from the whole island, It was flatly turned down by the IFA grand wizard and his association.

FIFA seem to be fully supportive of the FAI in the case being brought by the North to CAS, and its hardly surprising as their own legal department have made the same ruling in favour of the FAI on three separate occasions over the last number of years.

I'm no expert about CAS but are they not obliged primarily to apply the various regulations of FIFA when reaching their decision? Its difficult to see a positive outcome for the IFA as it is pretty black & white under current statutes.