Player eligibility row

[ArdeeBhoy]

Is this the paranoia of which has been spoken?

Poster
"The preconceived idea is that everyone who falls into this category, then automatically agrees with everything the FAI does and are supporting some great religious 'divide'."

"Moderator's response!"
"One look at the list of players the FAI has poached will tell you that the polarisation of football on the island not by association but by religion/political aspiration is exactly what is happening. Hence those who back the FAI are backing a defacto sectarian agenda. That is not preconceived but proven - it is out there in the public domain for everyone to see."

[dantheman]

Ah, I suppose it's to be expected. I'm 'on thin ice' now though; I've been accused of lying and uttering 'half-truths' and some posters suspect I work for the FAI and I'm scouring the forum looking for players who would be susceptible to 'poaching' because I started the thread on Shane Duffy on here - oh the powers of deduction (paranoia?). Some posters even suggested that non-Northern Ireland fans should not be allowed to use the forum in light of posts from Danny Invincible, AdiosAndytown? and myself. Sure, why don't the admins at foot.ie refuse entry to EalingGreen, Gather round and Not Brazil etc. since they're not Republic of Ireland supporters? Oh wait, that's right, because it's silly.


Thanks co.down green. Are Magnay and Kearns good players? Both are on the books at Premiership clubs, so I assume they're both handy enough.

You are dead right too. It is annoying when they complain about this perceived 'defacto sectarian poaching policy'* and then argue that cases such as Norwood's or whatever are different and excusable. On top of that, their fans are outright denying that a player would ever approach the FAI to declare for them, making it out like the FAI are acting shady and kidnapping Catholic children in the North and brainwashing them into wanting to play for the Republic.

*I'd love to know how they come to this conclusion.

Well your name is Predator...

Charming quote this:
"Gypsy beggar thieving scumbags."

[TrapAPony]

There is an interesting piece in The Sunday Times, by Paul Rowan, regarding this issue.

His article confirms the switching of Daniel Kearns, West Ham, but he also states that Carl Magnay, Chelsea centre-half and NI under 21 international, has joined him.

Magnay won the SKY TV's Football Icon, which earned him a traineeship at Chelsea. He was born in Gateshead but has grandparents, it is believed, from Derry, which allowed him to play for NI.

According to the article...........he shares an apartment in South West London with Chelsea midfielder Conor Clifford, who encouraged him to make the switch.

Steve Beaglehole, NI under 21 manager, on Magnay, "It's very disappointing..................I spoke to Carl before he was due to play against San Marino a couple of weeks ago and he said that he didn't have the passion to play for Northern Ireland. He said he was English, and could only play for England. I suspected that he had been contacted by the Republic, but he denied that was the case and if he does play for them I will be most disappointed that he wasn't open with me."

He concludes his piece by stating that there are a number of other players thinking of making a switch.

We'll have to wait for official confirmation..........but, interesting times ahead.

Very interesting indeed. Is the article online??

[geysir]

I don't know how this Carl Magnay qualifies for the FAI if both his grandparents are from Derry.
Under that FIFA rule 17, the parent/grandparent is supposed to be born within the association's territory.
Unless, seeing as how Derry fc is a fully fledged member of the LOI, the FAI can claim jurisdiction there

[Charlie Darwin]

Could it be because they were born before partition?

[geysir]

Grandparents of a 21 year old? biologically possible but improbable.
Usually there are 4 grandparents in the equation (Kerry exceptions noted), maybe at least one of the other 2 was born in the Republic.

[lopez]

Can British nationality not be renounced then? It was my understanding the the GFA enabled northern-borns to assume just Irish citizenship, but maybe I'm mistaken. :/

It can be renounced but as both countries acknowledge dual-citizenship its largely immaterial. Only countries that do not allow dual citizenship would you need to renounce your citizenship. Somewhere close to my heart is Spain. It doesn't recognise dual citizenship except for countries and peoples formerly under their realm. This means all south America and Portugal plus Sephardic Jews. Everyone else, those born with foreign parents or 2G like me, must renounce all other citizenships to get a Spanish passport. As for the Irish in Britain, those of us born prior to 1981 automatically have British citizenship until we renounce it. I presume its the same for the O6C, the difference there being that everyone born there prior to the last change in the Irish constitution could also get Irish citizenship, automatically.

[geysir]

I presume its the same for the O6C, the difference there being that everyone born there prior to the last change in the Irish constitution could also get Irish citizenship, automatically.

Sorry Lopez, by this stage it is beyond debate

Before the GFA, a Nordie was entitled to Irish citizenship, it was not automatic, see the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956
Post GFA, a Nordie's Irish citizenship became automatic.

[lopez]

Sorry Lopez, by this stage it is beyond debate

Before the GFA, a Nordie was entitled to Irish citizenship, it was not automatic, see the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956
Post GFA, a Nordie's Irish citizenship became automatic.

Most things are beyond debate on this thread. Can't get into Are we a Country. Still got that court order banning me from contact with minors on the internet.

[bwagner]

I think it great news for FAI but they should be doing a better job at producing our own bloddy players. we have a big enough population for gods sake.

Its gona make an excellent celtic cup next year but :O)

[co. down green]

I don't know how this Carl Magnay qualifies for the FAI if both his grandparents are from Derry.
Under that FIFA rule 17, the parent/grandparent is supposed to be born within the association's territory.
Unless, seeing as how Derry fc is a fully fledged member of the LOI, the FAI can claim jurisdiction there

I presume he qualifies in the same way Alex Bruce qualified for us via his Bangor, Co. Down born Grandmother.

[Charlie Darwin]

Did she play for Ireland too?

[geysir]

I presume he qualifies in the same way Alex Bruce qualified for us via his Bangor, Co. Down born Grandmother.

Born in Down, a blessed experience I'm sure , is still not being born in the territory of the association.

[geysir]

Most things are beyond debate on this thread. Can't get into Are we a Country. Still got that court order banning me from contact with minors on the internet.

There is a new forum there devoted to debate these matters, it is called 'Football Apartheid in Ireland',
'tis complicated.
A person arriving from Mars would be forgiven for thinking this 'Football Apartheid in Ireland' would most likely encapsulate the current state of predominant Unionist support for and the loud British Identity of, an IFA team which has a pretense to represent and claim the support of two equal identities living within the territory of their association.
But no, this particular apartheid is about their perception of the expression of an Irish identity within the territory of their association, the very same copper fastened Irish identity that FIFA recognise as being infinitely greater than blood or residence connection, for eligibility purposes.
Strange enough, it is also the very same Irish national birthright identity that has been constitutionally accepted by a majority of the very same Unionists in 1998.

Well, my heart truly bleeds for the IFA.

[co. down green]

Born in Down, a blessed experience I'm sure , is still not being born in the territory of the association.

A blessed experience indeed

The Bruce case was brought to FIFA by the IFA and they were told that he was eligible, it was at this point that FIFA & the FAI offered the North the compromise of being able to pick players on the whole island, which they rejected.

[geysir]

Then I can only presume that FIFA recognise (and maybe it is their prerogative to), that being born in the 6 counties is being born within the territory of the FAI association. That the Irish citizenship somehow renders what we were led to believe was a territorial border, invisible.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Charming quote this:
"Gypsy beggar thieving scumbags."

Would that count as Hypocrisy, or Paranoia?? Or both?

Or just the real face of "Football For All";It makes you have a modicum of symapthy for the few deluded fools who actually believe in this....

Most things are beyond debate on this thread. Can't get into Are we a Country. Still got that court order banning me from contact with minors on the internet.

For a small price, can send you my lurking details, though 'Buyer beware', as they don't like criticism....

Born in Down, a blessed experience I'm sure , is still not being born in the territory of the association.

My great-granny was from there, I think pre-partition. Can we still be 'reclaimed' ??

[Nedser]

Again you fail to realise that the passport is only used to identify the person, not their nationality. Nationality only needs proven to FIFA as a result of a challenge post game.

I fully understand and accept that is what you believe to be the case. As I said before though (several times), that is just your opinion and you have failed to provide any independently verifiable evidence to support it. As I have also pointed out, your view conflicts directly with the published account of someone who has direct experience of how things actually work in practice. As such, I will choose to believe that you are wrong until you can prove otherwise. Feel free to make the same assumption in reverse.

jesus wept, again

Do me the honour of a proper quote and then count the nr of times identify is mentioned by me in those two replies you refer to

I did not misconstrue your original quotes in any way. Even re-reading your posts in full, both of them still appear to state that people born in NI have the right to choose between British and Irish citizenship. The word "identified" doesn't appear anywhere in the sentences related to eligiblity for citizenship in either post! If those posts don't accurately convey what you meant then fine, but just come out and say that and explain what you did mean, rather than going on the attack yet again. Remember I just responded with a simple and polite request for clarification in the first place. You could have just provided that clarification. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be your style.

I don't know how this Carl Magnay qualifies for the FAI if both his grandparents are from Derry.
Under that FIFA rule 17, the parent/grandparent is supposed to be born within the association's territory.

Again FIFA's statutes are ridiculously unclear, which is the root cause of this whole debacle. Article 17 only applies to "Any Player who refers to art. 15 par. 1 to assume a new nationality". So key questions will be: a) did Carl Magnay "assume a new nationality" and b) did he "refer to art. 15 par. 1" to do so. I'm really not sure how anyone could prove that someone referred to a particular FIFA statute to assume a new nationality (as opposed to assuming a new nationality just coz he wants to). Incidentally, Magnay may have held Irish citizenship since his birth (depending on whether his grandparent(s) held Irish citizenship and on whether his parents registered his birth in the Foreign Births Register). If so, he could hardly be accused of referring to a recently introduced FIFA statute to assume Irish nationality. Just to clarify though, I know nothing about his circumstances, I'm just speculating as to how he might be eligible.

[geysir]

I
I did not misconstrue your original quotes in any way

.
You misconstrued both my replies by selective quoting and making assumptions based on the selected disconnected sentence.

Even re-reading your posts in full, both of them still appear to state that people born in NI have the right to choose between British and Irish citizenship. The word "identified" doesn't appear anywhere in the sentences related to eligiblity for citizenship in either post!

And neither should the noun 'identity' appear related to eligibility for citizenship in any post.
Identity is a choice, citizenship is the birthright.

If those posts don't accurately convey what you meant then fine, but just come out and say that and explain what you did mean, rather than going on the attack yet again. Remember I just responded with a simple and polite request for clarification in the first place. You could have just provided that clarification. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be your style.

Would you even know what a clarification was, if it hit you full on like a brick?

Again FIFA's statutes are ridiculously unclear, which is the root cause of this whole debacle

,
Again you interpret incorrectly, your chronic inability to read text as it is written is interpreted as someone else causing the confusion.
The text is clear, though FIFA's interpretation of article 17 could be questioned as unclear.

Article 17 only applies to "Any Player who refers to art. 15 par. 1 to assume a new nationality". So key questions will be: a) did Carl Magnay "assume a new nationality" and b) did he "refer to art. 15 par. 1" to do so.

It helps comprehension to read a phrase as it is written. Carl does not have to refer to article 15 to assume a new nationality. You do not understand what "who refers to" means.

Article 17 is entitled
Acquisition of a new nationality.

'Any player who refers to
art.15 par. 1 to assume a
new nationality'

Means, this article 17 refers to players who already have a nationality and have already qualified to represent an association under the eligibility outlined in article 15. And are acquiring a new nationality.

I'm really not sure how anyone could prove that someone referred to a particular FIFA statute to assume a new nationality (as opposed to assuming a new nationality just coz he wants to). Incidentally, Magnay may have held Irish citizenship since his birth (depending on whether his grandparent(s) held Irish citizenship and on whether his parents registered his birth in the Foreign Births Register). If so, he could hardly be accused of referring to a recently introduced FIFA statute to assume Irish nationality. Just to clarify though, I know nothing about his circumstances, I'm just speculating as to how he might be eligible

A total (but almost perfect) mishmash of disconnected thinking .

[Gather round]

Sure, why don't the admins at foot.ie refuse entry to EalingGreen, Gather round and Not Brazil etc. since they're not Republic of Ireland supporters? Oh wait, that's right, because it's silly

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Although it might be worth adding that if I'd come on here to suggest that the South's team be forcibly merged/ taken over, as you have for the Northern Ireland side, I imagine I'd be banned pretty quickly. As ArdeeBhoy/ Adios Andytown has been from both foot.ie and OWC , I've lose count how many times.