Player eligibility row

[Predator]

* - But like Arnie: "I'll Be Back"

You must be referring to the Arnie of Hercules in New York.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzjZfAGgE2M

[Gather round]

I always find it amusing when the North’s supporters go on about the number players born outside the island who play for Ireland

Fair point, and thanks for the map/ list- I've never heard of most of them, although I do watch a lot of our U-21 games.

I think one reason we mention it (apart from on this thread, replying to Dan's map gag) is that although your fans are stressing, reasonably enough, that this dispute is about giving all Irishmen the chance to play for the Republic, there's a wider issue. Neither Irish team can produce enough high-standard players so, like the Scots and Welsh, we'll both continue to recruit the shortfall mainly from England. In practice, all four of us will take people whose connection to their new country is pretty superficial. That said, of the 24 players from NI's recent qualifiers only two (Paterson and Taylor) were from outside.

I see the predictable 'united Ireland inevitabvle at next census/ election/ opinion poll/ Tuesday' has revived again, so I'll leave you to it. Let us know after the referendum result, ta.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Fair point, and thanks for the map/ list- I've never heard of most of them, although I do watch a lot of our U-21 games.

Even If this was true, you never pay much attention to any game yer ever at....

I see the predictable 'united Ireland inevitabvle at next census/ election/ opinion poll/ Tuesday' has revived again, so I'll leave you to it. Let us know after the referendum result, ta.

Huh?

More paranoid ramblings....who mentioned a vote!!

[ifk101]

I think one reason we mention it (apart from on this thread, replying to Dan's map gag) is that although your fans are stressing, reasonably enough, that this dispute is about giving all Irishmen the chance to play for the Republic there's a wider issue. Neither Irish team can produce enough high-standard players so, like the Scots and Welsh, we'll both continue to recruit the shortfall mainly from England.

What we have here is a football association seeking to stop nationals by birth the right to represent their country. The football association in question has a very unique interpretation of FIFA's eligibility statutes and, despite receiving clarification from FIFA on this matter, believes it's interpretation is correct and wants FIFA to apply and uphold its eligibility statutes according to how it interprets the statutes. That said football association is also very critical of the selection policies of other football associations, is qualified by the knowledge that one of the most capped players for said football association has zero eligibility linkage to the said football association.

That said, of the 24 players from NI's recent qualifiers only two (Paterson and Taylor) were from outside.

Once you cap a player with what you term "superficial" connections, it's laughable to come along and assume a moral high ground in moaning about other football associations doing likewise.

[dantheman]

Fair point, and thanks for the map/ list- I've never heard of most of them, although I do watch a lot of our U-21 games.

Tis a fair point, the maps of hypocrisy never lie! I suggest you do more research and spread the word amoungs your OWC brethren, they seem unaware they live in glass houses.

I think one reason we mention it (apart from on this thread, replying to Dan's map gag) is that although your fans are stressing, reasonably enough, that this dispute is about giving all Irishmen the chance to play for the Republic, there's a wider issue. Neither Irish team can produce enough high-standard players so, like the Scots and Welsh, we'll both continue to recruit the shortfall mainly from England. In practice, all four of us will take people whose connection to their new country is pretty superficial. That said, of the 24 players from NI's recent qualifiers only two (Paterson and Taylor) were from outside.

A wider issue indeed, and connected to the above. You are indeed correct that England, due to proximity and huge population, will provide some of its born and bred citizens to NI/ROI/Wales/Scotland.
That being said, only one set of fans are pointing out than one particular individual other association is involved in this. Your own. Which is sad, as we're all at it. Furthermore the OWC rabble have their own, self concluded interpretation, that they wish to have imposed.

Because they're "special"

I see the predictable 'united Ireland inevitabvle at next census/ election/ opinion poll/ Tuesday' has revived again, so I'll leave you to it. Let us know after the referendum result, ta.

Oh but nobody wrote anything about that! We are just examining more options for the FAI training camps for when they take their rightful and noble place in the wee six!

[co. down green]

Fair point, and thanks for the map/ list- I've never heard of most of them, although I do watch a lot of our U-21 games..

Unfortunately, I don't have data for every English, Scottish and Welsh local government area breaking down the number of Irish Republic passport holders/ grandsons of de aspora/ owners of Riverdance downloads,.

The point in creating the map was to show the scale of English born players being brought into the North’s youth set-up by Beagleshole & also to show how your own little map was a bit daft as its the IFA management team who seem to be the busiest in the player acquisition field.

In a recent interview the north’s u21 international Lee Hodson said that he, and the Watford youth teams attending the Milk Cup, were approached to try and find out if anyone had a 6 county born granny & to persuade them to play for the north.

Nothing wrong with that I suppose, if its not breaking FIFA rules, but its worth noting that England are looking Hodson back and are probably not best pleased at the almost ‘blanket poaching’ of kids by the North’s management team.

Its probably no surprise that IFA underage teams now have five English born Watford players in their ranks - Dominic ball u16, Adam Thompson u17, Jack Warburton u17 , Michael Bryan (senior debut recently) & Lee Hodson u21.

Its absolutely laughable for the north’s fans to criticise Irish selection procedures when Beaglehole seems to be running his youth selection process like a cattle market.

Ni u16 internationals - Watford born Dominic Ball and London born Joe Jones added to map.

Perhaps you should post the map on owc under the thread title – Who are the Beggars?

[Predator]

What we have here is a football association seeking to stop nationals by birth the right to represent their country. The football association in question has a very unique interpretation of FIFA's eligibility statutes and, despite receiving clarification from FIFA on this matter, believes it's interpretation is correct and wants FIFA to apply and uphold its eligibility statutes according to how it interprets the statutes.

Indeed. At first I was a bit baffled by the IFA's persistence that they were right and the FAI, FIFA and the rest of the world were wrong and I couldn't believe it, but now I'm believing it. Thankfully, quite a few NI supporters are more than aware of the misguided nature of the IFA's approach. However, taking into consideration the likelihood that the IFA's case at the CAS (presumably to get FIFA to uphold its statutes - but is this the case at all?) will fail, I don't think this will be the end of the issue and the IFA, if their misplaced sense of entitlement is anything to go by, will continue to make an issue out of it until they get what they want.

[Predator]

Have to say Co. Down Green, kudos on the map. I was always aware of the vast number of 'foreign' players within the IFA's ranks, but the map of the youth players alone gives a fantastic image.

[Sullivinho]

Its worth noting that England are looking Hodson back and are probably not best pleased at the almost ‘blanket poaching’ of kids by the North’s management team.

I wonder, is there any chance some of these kids are availing of the NI experience whilst keeping their international options open in the event ability should prove too much for ambition to ignore?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Lol.

Perhaps you should post the map on owc under the thread title – Who are the Beggars?

Will anyone dare?? It would be worth it, even to get banned by their Paranoia Police on OWB.
Though if anyone does, I for one would make a modest donation to charity.

[The Fly]

Will anyone dare?? It would be worth it, even to get banned by their Paranoia Police on OWB.
Though if anyone does, I for one would make a modest donation to charity.

Firstly, it has already been posted and I expect proof of your charitable donation.

Secondly, in my experience the admin/moderators of OWC have always been quite liberal, lenient and accommodating.
You might surprise yourself!

[dantheman]

I see EG has run back to his own.
Still banging out the tired old territory argument.

QUOTE (Predator @ Jun 11 2010, 05:16 PM) I hope you mean hypocrisy on the part of your fellow supporters. You know, those who have continuously mocked the fact that there happen to be a few English or Scottish players in our squads.

Hypocrisy? I think not. For what you overlook is that every single one of those players has at least one parent or grandparent who was born "within the territory of the IFA" (as FIFA phrases it in their Articles 16 and 17). Indeed, one of those players has a father who won 42 caps for NI and the father of another is only the Coach of our U-21's.

Can the likes of Darron Gibson point to any parent or grandparent born within the territory of the FAI?

That is the difference, which effectively rebuts your claims of hypocrisy, whether you care to recognise it or not.

QUOTE (Predator @ Jun 11 2010, 05:16 PM)
In fact, that's what drove the poster on foot.ie to create the map.
You confuse cause and effect. Whilst it may have manifested itself in his little chart (I hope he is proud of it, btw), actually what drove the originator ("Co.Down Green") was a hatred of all things Norn Iron.
It is this same hatred, for instance, which causes the same prat eg laboriously to type out "Ireland" and "the North", when anyone else would simply (and accurately) type "ROI" and "NI".
Then again, it is usually the case that those ROI fans who actually live in the Republic are entirely decent, whilst those who are most consumed with bitterness at the mere mention of "Northern Ireland" are the ones who actually live there...

On another note, a poll has been launched for what action to take when the CAS fails. Kind of an admittance that for all the hot air spouted (see quote above), no case is present.

Options favoured include, er, not talking to us. Bit like auld EG here for the last few days. Nice constructive one here:

When the FAI tell us to f**k off then that's when the gloves come off and we get stuck into those c**ts and anyone else for that matter too.

Yeah punk yeah!!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Firstly, it has already been posted and I expect proof of your charitable donation.

Secondly, in my experience the admin/moderators of OWC have always been quite liberal, lenient and accommodating.
You might surprise yourself!

If you can provide evidence (eg. a link;PM If you like?).
And you or the other regular contributor on there/here can post the double of the 'FAI/IFA' maps on there, will happily double that modest donation to a charity of your choice.

As for the second part, presume after the treatment even a modest poster like you has received on there, you are being ironic??
Sure there are one or two accomodating souls (even give modest credit to their uber-Mod, ML, but maybe that's because he's allowing others to do 'his work'??), but the bitterness and rancour has to be seen on there to be believed.

Would admit though, on meeting most fans of the North in person over a few pints they're largely tolerable, though they do seem to have a long-term view of regarding us from a largely derogatory view (like most unionists) should we have the temerity to present a differing view (from their own very narrow one) eg. of their football team.....
See Dtm's post above for a typical stance. Including our own notorious 'favourite' poster. But milder than some!

[Sullivinho]

When the FAI tell us to f**k off then that's when the gloves come off and we get stuck into those c**ts and anyone else for that matter too.

Every night, Chuck Norris checks beneath his bed to make sure the author of the above is not present. Only then can he achieve restful sleep.

I can't imagine how the FAI are coping.

[awec]

Would admit though, on meeting most fans of the North in person over a few pints they're largely tolerable, though they do seem to have a long-term view of regarding us from a largely derogatory view (like most unionists) should we have the temerity to present a differing view (from their own very narrow one) eg. of their football team.....

What?

"Unionists have a derogatory view of those who have a negative view of the country they support"

There's a shock. And you deride them for this?!

I'm a Unionist, I don't think players should be allowed to switch allegiances past a certain (much younger than now) age. Am I narrow minded?

[co. down green]

Poor Ealing Green, so much anger.

Imagine someone having the front or the audacity to call his international team Ireland. It’s shocking, an abomination and a downright injustice.

And he’s so rude, calling me a prat. I’m consumed, consumed I say by bitterness because I pointed out that the north’s teams are being swamped with young English born players, yet Ealing Green spends his life on owc calling us beggars!

sheer unbridled hypocrisy, I say.

ni u18 international – Romford born Callum Whittaker added to map.

[yapster]

What?

"Unionists have a derogatory view of those who have a negative view of the country they support"

There's a shock. And you deride them for this?!

I'm a Unionist, I don't think players should be allowed to switch allegiances past a certain (much younger than now) age. Am I narrow minded?

Who do you support then?

[The Fly]

If you can provide evidence (eg. a link;PM If you like?).
And you or the other regular contributor on there/here can post the double of the 'FAI/IFA' maps on there, will happily double that modest donation to a charity of your choice.

If you look at the post above your own, #952 by 'Dantheman', you'll notice that he has pasted the exchange between 'Predator' and 'Ealing Green' on OWC which references it.

As for the FAI/IFA maps, I don't have a reason to post them on OWC. I only posted the British map in response to a OWC member, who made a cheeky wee remark about the number of Irish and British born players in our squads. (.....and it was posted before your suggestion)

The charity of my choice...........hmmm..........what's that one Roy Keane supports?

As for the second part, presume after the treatment even a modest poster like you has received on there, you are being ironic??

You must be a member to know of my 'treatment' or my modesty.......eh?

Sure there are one or two accomodating souls (even give modest credit to their uber-Mod, ML, but maybe that's because he's allowing others to do 'his work'??), but the bitterness and rancour has to be seen on there to be believed.

In the context of what interests me, my own personal experience has been as I described.....no more, no less.

I suppose that at times things can get a little robust, but that's only to be expected when it comes to 'Northern Ireland' issues, whether that be player eligibility or current affairs. But.....you know.....if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[The Fly]

Poor Ealing Green, so much anger.

Imagine someone having the front or the audacity to call his international team Ireland. It’s shocking, an abomination and a downright injustice.

And he’s so rude, calling me a prat. I’m consumed, consumed I say by bitterness because I pointed out that the north’s teams are being swamped with young English born players, yet Ealing Green spends his life on owc calling us beggars!

Don't take such slanders to heart.......chin up.......you'll get through this!

[ArdeeBhoy]

"Unionists have a derogatory view of those who have a negative view of the country they support"

There's a shock. And you deride them for this?!

I'm a Unionist, I don't think players should be allowed to switch allegiances past a certain (much younger than now) age. Am I narrow minded?

Of course, any sane person would;It's the 21st century, not the 17th century which they seem insistent on reminding us all of, annually. Or had you not noticed??
And have you not read the thread, FFS?

Also, NB.The Hypocrisy of gurning about us taking members of the indigenous population (Who no longer are forced to have an alien nationality forced on them. The fact that they have had to wait decades for this, is bad enough.) when the North seem happy to do this with plenty of people eligible to play for England(amongst others), shows the usual arrogant myopia.

If you look at the post #952 by 'Dantheman', you'll notice that he has pasted the exchange between 'Predator' and 'Ealing Green' on OWC which references it.

As for the FAI/IFA maps, I don't have a reason to post them on OWC.
The charity of my choice...........hmmm..........what's that one Roy Keane supports?

Ah, you do now!
P. is too much on thin ice to do so....

You must be a member to know of my 'treatment' or my modesty.......eh?

I suppose that at times things can get a little robust, but that's only to be expected when it comes to 'Northern Ireland' issues, whether that be player eligibility or current affairs. But.....you know.....if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

You might say that;I couldn't possibly comment.

But where I would disagree with you, is that they always seem to accentuate the negative and you have to be 'allowed to stand in the kitchen', unless you are totally unreasonable, to conduct such a debate in the first place......
They don't want to hear a differing opinion.

Whilst I would disagree with EG as his stance is deluded and hypocritical, NB/'mac' has a, er, more reasoned but one-dimensional approach. He comes across as relatively sincere and often talks more sense on owc than the more paranoid constituency?? And when on here!