Bit of talk here on the idea of an all-Ireland team: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/...soccer_av.html
Ah sure, you'll only upset the P's mentioning that. What with them being all British, is it, this week???
Bizarrely they seem to be taking great pleasure in Givens's dismissal. And have some strange ditty apparently about their 'own' Steve Beaglehole and a canine's rear end. What odd people they are....
Last edited by ArdeeBhoy; 26/03/2010 at 1:12 AM.
Obviously nobody's informed RTE that Real Player hasn't been remotely popular since about 1997.Originally Posted by Predator
Even if there was a will for an all-Ireland team, would FIFA rules actually permit it?
An interesting point, though I have a feeling that would be the least of our worries....
Irish Footballing Apartheid, eh?
Why wouldn't they? Incidently I don't see it ever happening -not even in the event of an All-Ireland state.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
You said it.
Especially these quotes.
'Indeed, I have had exactly the same reaction here i.e. "what are you even doing on this Board?" etc. Imo, the proper reaction is to stand your ground and make your point (ideally without resorting to the sort of weak or "silly" argument you employ, when backed into a corner).'
And then:
'You may not be aware of it, but one of the posters with whom you have had the strongest run-ins is actually a fellow Donegal man. However, unlike you, he supports a local club team (Harps), not one from another county (country?) at all...'
'the de facto sectarian nature of the FAI's recruitment policy, as every new case of defection emerges, the incontrovertible fact that they are exclusively from the Nationalist/Catholic community, combined with the equally incontrovertible evidence of the FAI being prepared to make the first approach, points ever more directly to the point that they are only offering opportunities to one community in NI. Which, considering the FAI's deceit over "not making the first approach", makes sense i.e. if they were to approach promising youngsters from the Unionist/Protestant community, they would risk being turned down flat, and their activities being exposed for all to see.'
Says it all.
This is the cooooooooooooolest footy forum I've ever seen!
I don't really know. I just assumed that the fact that there is currently no all-Ireland nation state might make things somewhat difficult. But maybe not. I haven't a clue. That's why I was asking. I was having a quick glance through the statutes to see if they contained stipulations on what constituted a "national association" and what criteria an association was required to meet before being granted FIFA membership, but I don't know where to start really or even if I'm looking in the right place. Is there any precedent for it, where a single association has officially represented two or more otherwise sovereign states? The USSR team, maybe? Although that team represented a single political bloc of Soviet republics; not really sovereign entities in their own right. FIFA don't permit entry to every association that applies to them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-FIFA_football
Admittedly, this prospect of an all-Ireland team is totally different, and seemingly novel in world football, in the sense that I suppose it could be described as a supra-national football team or something, if it were to ever actually happen as things stand currently, politically-speaking. I'm aware that Serbia and Montenegro represented the two independent states at one point in time but that was more out of convenience/necessity due to the fact that Montenegro had only just been granted its independence in the midst of official competition. If I'm not mistaken, the current Serbian team is recognised as that team's successor. How do FIFA decide who should succeed in such cases?FIFA is the international governing body of association football, charged with overseeing football globally and with running international representative matches. However, some international football takes place outside of its ratification. This often consists of matches involving sub-national entities such as islands, colonies or autonomous regions.
There are two possibilities with regard to the all-Ireland scenario; one is the establishment of a totally new association, which I imagine would be even less popular than the idea of an all-Ireland team itself given the fact both the IFA and FAI would have their historical records wiped and the new entity would have to work its way up the rankings/seedings from the bottom. The other possibility would be one of the current associations subsuming the other, with the records of the association that has taken the other under its wing, so to speak, being treated as the new team's records. I'd imagine there'd be complications arising out of which former entity this team should succeed. I can't see the IFA being too happy to relinquish their history of results. They would, no doubt, feel like their team was being treated as a tag-along of sorts, rather than an association of equivalent status to the FAI, and understandably so. The same would apply to the FAI and Irish fans if the idea of the FAI being subsumed into the IFA was aired. Or maybe I'm mistaken... Who knows? The likelihood of it coming to that is slim, but it's something that has to be thought about by those who are seriously entertaining the idea in the first place.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 26/03/2010 at 10:03 AM.
[QUOTE=DannyInvincible;1338965]I Is there any precedent for it, where a single association has officially represented two or more otherwise sovereign states? The USSR team, maybe? Although that team represented a single political bloc of Soviet republics; not really sovereign entities in their own right. FIFA don't permit entry to every association that applies to them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-FIFA_football
Even under the USSR days Ukraine and Belarus had sepearet representation at the UN and Soviet citizens had to show passports when vistiting these two republics. It was part of some wierd post-war settlment that balanced the fact that there were also two US administered dependencies with UN representation (Puerto Rico and somewhere else?). Obviously niether Ukraine nor Belarus has seperate football teams although the USSR did for a time field an entirely Ukrainian team (Dynamo Kiev)
There are of course Associations that do not represent sovereign nations including the 4 "Home Nations" of the UK and Faeroe Islands which is still under Danish sovereignty. I think the brad principle has been conceded that Associations are not necessarily based on sovereign political jurisdictions
The same clown referred to us once again as 'Beggars', as recently as yesterday on the bigot board.
Unsure which is worse, the Paranoia or Hypocrisy?
Indeed. I wasn't necessarily overlooking that fact. However, I think those are exceptions that were granted membership of FIFA under previous rules that no longer apply to world football, as far as FIFA's executive committee is concerned anyway. I suppose you could say they've been given de facto special dispensation to continue existing, to use EalingGreen terminology.
I read recently about Gibraltar's failed application to enter UEFA/FIFA. Gibraltar, I believe, shares many similarities in its political status to the likes of the Faroe Islands. While UEFA accepted the Gibraltarian application and forwarded it to FIFA, FIFA then rejected it, possibly on grounds of questionable sovereignty or something, although I'd have to confirm that. The suspicion, though, was that the real reason FIFA rejected the application was because it didn't want to open a political can of worms; Spain were threatening to boycott any competition in which Gibraltar would compete if FIFA gave recognition to a Gibraltarian national team.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibralt..._FIFA_and_UEFA
So, where all that would leave a possible all-Ireland team, I'm not sure...The decision was made on December 8, 2006 that Gibraltar will be made provisional members of UEFA: FIFA had announced two days earlier that their executive committee had "ruled that Gibraltar does not meet the statutory requirements to become a FIFA member", despite the fact that the Court of Arbitration in Sport had already ruled to the contrary.
On January 26, 2007 Gibraltar membership had been rejected by the UEFA Board with only 3 out of 52 votes supporting Gibraltar's claim. Spain was the strongest opponent to Gibraltar joining UEFA, even threatening to boycott any competition in which the Gibraltar national team would compete.
These appear to be the rules that govern membership:
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affe...uten2009_e.pdfII: Membership
Article 10: Admission
1. Any Association which is responsible for organising and supervising football in its country may become a Member of FIFA. In this context, the expression “country” shall refer to an independent state recognised by the international community. Subject to par. 5 and par. 6 below, only one Association shall be recognised in each country.
2. Membership is only permitted if an Association has already been a provisional member of a Confederation for at least two years.
3. Any Association wishing to become a Member of FIFA shall apply in writing to the FIFA general secretariat.
4. The Association’s legally valid statutes shall be enclosed with the application for membership and shall contain the following mandatory provisions:
(a) always to comply with the Statutes, regulations and decisions of FIFA and of its Confederation;
(b) to comply with the Laws of the Game in force;
(c) to recognise the Court of Arbitration for Sport, as specified in these Statutes.
5. Each of the four British Associations is recognised as a separate Member of FIFA.
6. An Association in a region which has not yet gained independence may, with the authorisation of the Association in the country on which it is dependent, also apply for admission to FIFA.
7. The Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes shall regulate the details of the procedure for admission.
8. This article shall not affect the status of existing Members.
Seeing as the whole of the island of Ireland isn't "an independent state recognised by the international community", I can't see how a new association could be established and gain admission, unless the executive committee could grant some sort of exception and both existing associations were willing. Whether the association of one state could subsume another association in another state is a different matter. It would appear that those rules don't really cover that possibility.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 26/03/2010 at 1:08 PM.
Indeed, the IFA complaining about Apartheid lolIrish Footballing Apartheid, eh?
As regards Predator's link, former ni boss Brian Hamilton has been a vocal supporter of an all Ireland team for years, just as Jennings, Martin O'Neill, George Best, Dougan and Lennon have been.
Was Hamilton having a dig at Worthington over his handling of the eligibility issue when he said managers should stick to the football and leave the other stuff out of their press interviews.?
Intersting to hear him talk about players deciding to represent Ireland rather than the North back in the 90's. He certainly seems to accept the fact that players have always had the right to choose and that their choice should be accepted.
Perhaps he could have a word with the IFA grand wizard at Windsor Avenue and tell him to move on, as there seems to be plenty of England underage internationals willing to fill the ranks of the North's team at the moment.
Posts like this make me think you're not too familiar with the meaning of hypocrisy, so I'll go with paranoia.
What tended to happen in post-communist Europe was that new/ revived, smaller countries (eg Estonia, Slovenia) broke away from the larger, dominating power (Soviet Union, Yugoslavia) leaving the rump (Russia, Serbia) as the 'successor' inheriting the past playing record etc.
If Belgium ever splits (probably the most likely scenario in western Europe), things might get interesting. Assuming the Flemings launch the breakaway, the Walloons might argue that despite only 40% of the population (and less that of the decent football teams) they deserve to maintain their ranking while the Flems get kicked down into pot six?
Guilty as charged yer honor (and call the witness GSpain for the defence). Unbounded as is my admiration for our U-21 supremo, even by NI standards he has a very silly name.
Last edited by Gather round; 26/03/2010 at 6:36 PM.
An organisation controlled by Orangemen would be wise not to spout stuff about Apartheid.
Really if the IFA are serious about attracting players from all sections of society in NI then they should remove the members of the Orange Order from its ranks.
They already attract players from all sections of society (although presumably that would change if they had a ban on Orange Order members).
There is recent evidence that for whatever reasons players from some sections of NI society are not inclined to play for NI.
If the IFA are interested in attracting as many players as possible from all sections of NI society then it would surely be beneficial to distance itself from an organisation that holds the views that the Orange Order does. There should be no place in the IFA for Orangemen if the IFA are serious about wanting players from all sections of NI society.
Sean- while I share your distaste for the Orange Order, I think you overstate their 'place' in the IFA. In practice replacing Raymond Kennedy with a left-wing atheist wouldn't of itself change either the nature of the organisation nor the likelihood of players from nationalist areas wanting to play, or not.
Posting Permissions
Quote
Bookmarks